Aussie dragster

Competition engines and ancillaries - general discussion
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Guy Croft
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Aussie dragster

Post by Guy Croft » June 28th, 2006, 9:07 am

This is a guy I'd like to 'meet up with' again, lost all his details along with many others a while back, around the time I changed over from gcengines to croftengines@aol.com.

I love dragsters, the one engine I have never been asked to do, though I'd like to....

Looking forward BTW to hearing from Greg and Mike - my Greece & Cyprus based 1/4 mile power heroes.
Attachments
daleduffy.jpg
..thinking of moving from 4 wheels back to 2? Forget bikes, this is what you need..
daleduffy.jpg (44.87 KiB) Viewed 8077 times

sumplug
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Post by sumplug » June 29th, 2006, 8:20 am

look at that charger fitted on that baby!! love to know the full spec and see the power curves. never seen a twin cam dragster like that one before. just shows how good Mr Lampredi's twincam was. still in my opinion the best 8v engine ever. 8)

Alexis
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Post by Alexis » June 29th, 2006, 8:28 am

How come the inlet and exhaust are swapped around? :?

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » June 29th, 2006, 9:47 am

They're not, yours are!!!

This is an engine from the '70's

GC
Attachments
MH head built.JPG
early TC head, GC unit for MonteCarlo, head orientation is the same as Delta head above.
MH head built.JPG (22.82 KiB) Viewed 8043 times
AS head complete.JPG
Late Delta 1600 Turbo/ie, Delta 4WD 2 liter with 'ice cream scoop' combustion chamber. Ports inlet/ex swapped over. Poor pic, sorry.
AS head complete.JPG (22.86 KiB) Viewed 8035 times
AG 16v head final assy 021 ready to fit inlet view.jpg
Integrale/Tipo/Thema,Coupe 16v head, inlets on the same side as the Delta 8v below, this is Alexis' head for Fiat Coupe Turbo in build at GCRE. Last of the 'works rally' developed heads.
AG 16v head final assy 021 ready to fit inlet view.jpg (59.69 KiB) Viewed 8033 times
Last edited by Guy Croft on June 29th, 2006, 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

F138
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Post by F138 » June 29th, 2006, 9:49 am

The water gallerie at the block (where the water pump is normally mounted) is open, so theres no cooling liquid inside?

Or is it aircooled ? :wink:

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » June 29th, 2006, 9:56 am

Maybe dry, don't know, sorry. Often are on dragsters I understand. To be honest I don't want to comment too much on the layout or equipment of the dragster, I am hoping the owner will come in and tell us, don't want to get anything wrong.

GC

Julian
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Post by Julian » June 29th, 2006, 11:34 am

Just for those that don't understand that last post - petrol (and diesel) combustion produces a large quantity of waste heat. Most of it is disposed of through exhaust gas but a significant percentage is absorbed by the block. This in turn is moderated by the oil and then (where used) the water coolant.

Alcohol (actually nitromethane for top fuellers) is a very different beast. The thermal waste is very, very low and the combustion itself very efficient. There are two downsides - the first is that the required fuel:air ratio is approximately twice that of petrol meaning that fuel consumption is similarly twice as high. The second and most significant is that one of the largest hurdles in running an alcohol fuelled engine is getting it hot in the first place. The alcohol also offers another benefit - thanks to the way it burns you can simply overfuel to increase cooling (where needed).

The vast majority of high performance (race) engines have to be warmed to operating temperature before starting them in order to bring operational tolerances into the desired range and make sure that the lubrication is immediately effective. The machining requirements for an alcohol engine are subsequently rather different since the tolerances at cold are much closer to those at operational temperature. Lubrication also needs to be given special consideration for the same reason.

For the serious top-fuel dragsters the matter is even more interesting when you consider the life expectancy of an engine between rebuilds. The compression ratio is such that the peak compression is as close to reaching hydraulic lock as possible, this puts incredible stress on the engine internals. Such engines will be subjected to less than 60 seconds of full load before needing a service. In all likelihood the engine will see less than 2000 revolutions.

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » June 29th, 2006, 12:31 pm

All - hi

interesting indeed, thanks, something I know little about, never having done it. Like to know more from a guy that races a dragster too, I mean we're not talking 1/4 mile here, I know what that is, all four wheels tend to be on the tarmac, right?1

Do these dragster alcohol engines need special lubricating oil during build and running? What other effects does the alcohol based fuel have and what exactly is alcohol fuel?

GC

Alexis
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Post by Alexis » June 29th, 2006, 12:45 pm

I know it's not useful towards this thread as such, but this always seems to crop up when dragsters are mentioned...
One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500.


Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1.5 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.


A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster supercharger.


With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.


At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitro methane, the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.


Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.


Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.


Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.


If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.


In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate at an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8G's .


Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence.


Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light!


Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load.


The red-line is actually quite high at 9500 rpm.


The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated US $1,000.00 per second. The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record is 333.00 mph (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta).

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » June 29th, 2006, 1:03 pm

now that I like, fuel air compressed nearly solid, 300mph before you finish reading this sentence - that is US racerspeak at its best!!

What fun, I must print that, well done AG

GC

Julian
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Post by Julian » June 29th, 2006, 1:27 pm

Need to get our own Mike Kason to pop in and give a description of his experience. He isn't doing dragster stuff any more but I believe he was rather successful in his day.

He's on his way to the Silver Flag hillclimb at the moment with his Alfa engined (ex-tourer) X1/9 so we'll have to wait until next week for that.

Testament
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Post by Testament » July 7th, 2006, 10:20 am

I hope this guy does turn up, can't wait to hear more from the integrale drag racers too.

Aussies and drag racing on a Fiat/Lancia forum usually leads to the rigoli ute.

Julian
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Post by Julian » July 7th, 2006, 11:52 am

He has been in touch with me briefly this week but he is back out to Italy again today to take part in the Val Saviore hillclimb...

Will chase him again once he gets back.

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