Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F

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Urbancamo
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Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F

Post by Urbancamo » September 28th, 2012, 6:25 pm

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ace124
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by ace124 » September 29th, 2012, 5:13 am

Hi Tommi. Id really like to see some pix of the modifications carried out to move the lower control arm foreward on the crossmember for more + caster.
Thanks

Guy Croft
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Guy Croft » September 29th, 2012, 12:53 pm

MODEL POST!

You're a class act Tommi!

Few can get a car 'out of shape' like a Finnish driver!

G
Guy Croft, owner

Urbancamo
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Urbancamo » October 3rd, 2012, 5:55 pm

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ace124
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by ace124 » October 4th, 2012, 5:56 am

Thanks Urban. I think 20mm forward will increase + caster greatly over the max you can get without this mod of about 4-4.5*. A few years back i installed longer crossmember bolts in a car, and filed the control arm pin holes on an angle to facilitate an excess of shims under the rear bolt, and even then we got a max of 5*+. Id say moving it 20mm forward would put you close to 8*. Id be curious to find out. On a dirt driven rally car the steering wont be too bad i guess. I wouldnt want to drive it on tarmac though with that much + caster .
Congrats on the dellortos. I have always maintained they are a better carb than the dcoe. At wot the dhla has less obstructions so flows better. At part throttle and thru progression they win hands down. Those 6 progression holes can even be plugged up with a dab of jb weld if your running rich over that area of throttle plate sweep. Horizontal pump jets i think were offered on the performance versions, whereas downfire pump jets were for cleaner emissions and most OEM applications. Looking at yours the idle air bypass screws still have covers on them. Not all dcoes have these but all dhlas do, making perfect balancing possible without having to bend throttle plates .
Im looking forward to this build. I saw one of these cars years ago in Cyprus painted with abarth livery and fell in love with it. If i can find a pic ill post it here, if its ok with you.

Urbancamo
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Urbancamo » October 4th, 2012, 1:04 pm

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ace124
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by ace124 » October 4th, 2012, 2:27 pm

Ah yes. I absolutely agree on the 124 type front ends. Another mod that helps bump the loaded wheel into negative camber is the use of 125/132 front spindles/stub axles. These also have larger bearings and a thicker stub. The above holds true when set at a ride height whereby the bottom control arm is parallel to the road. At rally ride height Im sure you will need to move its location on the crossmember lower so as not to upset the roll centre. I know the 124 abarth rally used these spindles but they didnt locate the control arm direct on the crossmember. Rather there is a bracket that bolts to the crossmember that can be changed to move the control arm higher or lower depending on tarmac or gravel height springs.
All very interesting stuff to me.
When you set the car up higher do you raise the steering arms ? or maybe rosejoint them and use spacers? I mean how do u get the track arms to sit parallel ? Or maybe being a gravel car, bump steer isnt so important?

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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Urbancamo » October 4th, 2012, 7:28 pm

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ace124
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by ace124 » October 8th, 2012, 11:02 am

Im pretty sure the last 2 sets of kits i ordered from eurocarb UK came with 175 needle valves too. One set of those carbs is on a 2l the other on my 1.8. No problem with fuel starvation or flooding with either using mechanical fuel pumps. You should be ok with your set up. Set the float levels by weight of floats not general literature.
3 float weights, marked on floats are: 10gm, 8.5gm, 7gm. Depending on weight set them at: 17mm,16mm or 15mm respectively and you should be fine if all else is ok. Dont forget to check pump jet volume when they are out. should be 8cc/ barrel for 20 full throttle pumps.
Once set up correctly, those dellorto's will purr.
I shipped my car to Cyprus from Australia recently and after 3months at sea without me having taped/secured the floats it started within 30 seconds on the mechanical fuel pump and idled at 500rpm without stalling. Infact i haven't touched them in over 2yrs and the car drives like its on injection only with an induction melody that can't be matched;-)
They are a work of art!

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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Urbancamo » October 8th, 2012, 7:19 pm

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ace124
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by ace124 » October 9th, 2012, 5:29 am

The theory behind the float levels is that the lighter floats will sit higher in the fuel, hence the difference in set up height. I assume your using metal tipped needle valves. With the viton tip needle valves(plasticy looking tip) the settings should be increased a little more. Im pretty sure these were oem on the lotus turbo dhla's.
Setting floats at 15, 16,or17mm is really a guess. What your trying to do is set the floats to a height so that the fuel level in the bowl is correct in a running state. Start your pump and look down the barrels to make sure fuel isn't dripping out of the venturi in which case level is too high. Run the car then, turn off. Hold carb cover down so it doesnt spring up. Release fuel pressure or wait a couple minutes. Undo the top cover screws. Quickly lift off cover so as not to introduce more fuel to the bowl.and measure from the top of the carb body (centre section where your jets screw in) to the fuel in the bowl. If your float level is correct, then the distance to the fuel should be 27mm. If its not then adjust the floats up or down and check again until it is. This is the fuel level your aiming for when u set float heights. Also for an offroad bumpy conditions car i suspect the heavier 10gm floats may be better in that they provide a more stable fuel level.

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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Urbancamo » October 18th, 2012, 6:55 pm

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ace124
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by ace124 » October 19th, 2012, 6:08 am

Its not very clear in the picture but i get the idea of what's involved in the caster mod. Shortening the steering arms will definitely speed up the steering, i can't really see how its done on that car though. If can get a better pic at some stage it would be good. This would obviously require heat treatment and crack testing etc. Really would like to see a pic actually. This would also increase steering effort as a side effect since the fulcrum points are changed. But on dirt and at speed i bet its very precise.
Here are the pix i promised of the said vehicle. They were taken pre digital so i took an image of them. Sorry about the orientation of the pic, im operating from a mobile phone over here still and make do with it.
Attachments
20121019_084636.jpg
20121019_084636.jpg (289.78 KiB) Viewed 5612 times

Urbancamo
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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Urbancamo » October 25th, 2012, 5:55 pm

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Re: Seat 124 Especial 2000 gr. F rallycar

Post by Urbancamo » October 27th, 2012, 6:16 pm

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