Turbo choice for 8v fast road Delta Integrale

[Abarthnorway - Remi L]

Hi!


This easter I will help my brother to overhaul his Delta Integrale 8V KAT engine with all new gaskets/bearings/rings etc.
We will install a 130 TC cam on the inlet side.
The head is already fully gasflowed.
We are currently running standard turbo and boost(1 bar).

The car will be remapped on rolling road after rebuild.

At the moment we expect the turbo needs replacing.
Regarding turbos I am totally blank, so I need some advice:

We are looking for these engine charachteristics:

- Road car!!
- Same or better driveability/flexibility
- Minimise turbo lag
- Boost increase to 1.3 bar (at least to 6000 rpm)
- Hopefully get turbo to kick in a bit lower in the rev range.

Will the standard 8V Kat Turbo be OK for these wishes to come true?

If not - what Turbos do You recommend? What changes will have to be made regarding flanges in/out, oiling etc? Other aspects to consider?

I am not looking for the biggest, fanciest turbo capable of 1000hp!!! I am looking for a drivable, reliable and flexible engine with a bit more boost/power/revs than standard. Ease of conversion also preferred.

Any help/ideas appreciated!

Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden




Opened up exhaust port on 8v Integrale with GC race guides

[pacman]

Hi Remi,
Have just been in the same lane as you. After lots of calculation, internet surfing and asking around on different forums i have now bought a Mitsubishi TD04HL-19T turbo. It´s originally found on Volvo V70R-cars. A TD04 turbo gives you exactly what you want. Fast spool-up, easily 1.3 bar at high revs, low-revs boost. My 19T will theoretically give me about 300 hp at 1.2 bars, depending on the porting job and inlet tract design.

You can find different compressor sizes on the TD04HL series, but for a 2 liter you need 15T - 19T.

Good luck!

///PeterC

[Guy Croft]

Well done Peter!!

GC

[Acki]

Garrett GT25R or GR28RS.
The GT25R should make 250bhp, the GT28RS allows 330bhp.
Small exhaust housing should be good for a small turbo lag.

[Abarthnorway - Remi L]

Hi Pacman!


Ok - I take Your advice for good advice!

Sorry to bother You with a lot of questions, but as said previously my knowledge about turbochargers are rather minimal:-)
More happy about good old carbs - but its all about experience I guess.

The designation t15...t19 - what does these numbers mean in practical terms?

How does it affect power/throttle response?

We hope to extract approx. 250 hp from the engine - any more will be considered a bonus.

Thanks a lot!

Best regards


Remi Lovhoiden

[pacman]

Remi,

15 - 19 is compressor size designation. Higher number = bigger wheel.
Unfortunately i don´t know what the number stands for.
The "T" is compressor wheel design. (There is also a "G" design...) Volvo switched from G to T on their performance cars.
Volvo LPT engines (low pressure turbo) uses 12G - 13G.
SAAB also used the 15T on their 9-5 Aero, 9-3 Aero and Viggen models.
Please note that there are variation on exhaust casings; #5, #6 or #7. The number equals the exhaust area in cm2, and corresponds to the turbine casing size. A smaller casing (#5) might give you better spool-up, but increase the back-pressure. Most recommended, and most used, are the #7 housing.

One important benefit with these modern turbos is that they are water cooled, which greatly enhance lifetime of the turbo. Therefore it should be possible to find a turbo in good shape, even with a lot of milage.

Warning: The market is currently flooded with cheap turbos, mostly made in China. Most of them are oil-cooled like old days design. A common problem with these oil cooled turbos whas that the oil tend to carbonize and plugged the small holes in the float bearings, with subsequent breakdown of the turbo. (You had to make sure that the turbo was cooled down before turning off the engine. Normal procedure was to let the engine idle for a minute before shut-down.)
A used modern Mitsu or Garrett turbo is always better than a "cheap" copy from China.

//PeterC

[SteveNZ]

The original turbo could be improved slightly for your application but it is adequate for the job. There is no point re-inventing the wheel.

[RedLexus]

How about the Garretts found on the Nissan 180's and 200's ? The boyos involved in Drifting are always messing about changing to bigger turboes , so there might be some available cheaply there? I want to do the same to my non-cat 8v Integrale, so am very interested... Speaking of which , what does the 130 TC Exhaust cam do to aid performance?

[Abarthnorway - Remi L]

Hi RedLexus / All.


RedLexus:
Only the inlet cam will be changed for a 130 TC cam - why not exhaust as well I never really understood - but GC says so!
Actually its a 130 TC exhaust cam being used the Integrale inlet side - reason is the 130 TC inlet cam has a distributor slot at the end, which we do not need:-)

Regarding the turbo a Volvo S70 turbo is on its way: TD04HL-16T-6

We hope it will fit without too much hassle - will find out as soon as it arrives.

By dismantling I do now remember why I decided to sell it, and still wonder why my brother bought it - working on these cars takes about 4 times as long time as any other car I have ever done any work on!! ---- might be that its is extremely entertaining to drive and the best antidepressiva You will ever lay hands on!

By the way we have slightly increased the already ported inlet from 33 to approx 34 mm to match the higher lift 130 tc cam. We have also opened up the combustion chamber around the inlet vavle - chamber now looks pearshaped. The valve seats are changed from 15`top cut to 30`top cut - all thanks to watching GC DVD 8V tuning guide. Some fantastic information there....

We have also changed all 8 valves as well as especially the exhaust were slightly - eer - very out of shape last time we reground them about a year ago. Nice to get new solid parts in nearly 20 year old car...

Hopefully I will be able to upload some new pics of build soon
I will keep You updated - thanks for all help!!


Till now take a look at last years session: --- same procedure this year:



This is the "package" thats going out - quite small under bonnet space for 2 liter twin cam with balance shafts, turbo, oil cooler, intercooler, gearbox, centerdiff, ABS and add a strut bar on top of it all. Very hard car to work on - lots of dismantling for even the most basic repair. Do not buy an Integrale as Your first italian car!! Be prepared to become a skilled/frustrated mechanic - or open Your wallet wide - that is if You find someone willing and able to do the job!! BTW: Sorry about the shabby winter wheels...




Engine finally out!! I do not dare to say how long time we used first time - quicker now - but still takes lot of time.




Inlet port cleaned up and increased slightly by removing material from roof/sides.



Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden

[RedLexus]

They are so "involving" to drive though.... and the look on young chaps faces as you cruise down the road always gives me an inward smile!

[Abarthnorway - Remi L]

Hi All!

As promised som more pictures of overhaul:



Big end oilway modified, and polished - not cleaned yet




Main oilway keyholed




Combustion chambers opened up around inlet valve, chamber now pear shaped. Valve seats now 30` top cut slightly into aluminium, 45`contact face * 1.8 mm and 70` approx 1.8mm as well.




Close up




Block after flexhoning


Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden

[ASF72]

Hi all,
I fitted a Garrett GT30 turbo with a 0.60 compressor housing and a 0.63 exhaust housing and 71mm wheel and im still with the standard inlet size (ported shroud) and still with internal wastegate system but i have bought a five bolt housing that fits onto the turbo which acts as an external wastegate with a 3" outlet V banded onto a custom down pipe, the results have been fantastic with very little pressure drop (1.5bar down to 1.4bar) all the way to the limiter.
couple of pics

Nino

[lovhoiden]

Hi Remi,
Have just been in the same lane as you. After lots of calculation, internet surfing and asking around on different forums i have now bought a Mitsubishi TD04HL-19T turbo. It´s originally found on Volvo V70R-cars. A TD04 turbo gives you exactly what you want. Fast spool-up, easily 1.3 bar at high revs, low-revs boost. My 19T will theoretically give me about 300 hp at 1.2 bars, depending on the porting job and inlet tract design.

You can find different compressor sizes on the TD04HL series, but for a 2 liter you need 15T - 19T.

Good luck!

///PeterC

Hi Peter!

I received the turbo a couple of days ago, and it seems it doesn't fit bolt on. It seems I have to do some modifications both on the side of the exhaust manifold and on the side connected to the down pipe (and it seems a bit smaller than the original one on the side of the down pipe, at least 3-4 mm in diameter).

Do you have a suggestion as how to do the necessary modifications? Any help would be highly appreciated! :D

Best regards,

Rein Lovhoiden

[pacman]

Hi Rein,

Sorry for a late reply.
Fitting a new or different turbo to an existing manifold / downpipe is just up to your engineering natural ability...

Manifold: Depending on mismatch there are a couple of options. Simple approach is to make an adapter plate say 10 mm thick. Or make a transition piece with two flanges and a cone. Or go for the "die-hard" approach and fabricate a custom manifold.... Personally, if the original manifold is satisfactory and the exhaust manifold outlet port size differens isn´t to big, i would make an adapter plate. Saves time and space.

Downpipe: The best solution here might be to fabricate a new downpipe to fit you system. Making adapter plates or transition pieces might give you extensive thermal tensions in the exhaust system, causing cracks.

This was just some very basic thoughts on the subject. Skim the net for some turbo car communitys and you´ll find a lot of information.

//Peter

[RedLexus]

Would ordinary steel be ok with the heat in this area?