Race Engine Forum UK

Afternoon all,
As the title suggests a question about the use of a Fiat croma Turbo block as the basis of an engine which I plan to put in an Integrale. Has anyone done this, and if so, are there any major snags? I am thinking about the gearbox, front diff and viscous coupling, which have some bolt locations on the block side. Any information gratefully received.
Andy

If you are referring to the 16V turbo, the block should fit. The visco will not work with the 'grales 4wd.

Thanks for your reply. However, I am not sure that I quite understand. The Integrale has a viscous coupling as part of its four wheel drive system. I think that you are saying that the Fiat Croma turbo block will bolt on to the Integrale gearbox (which also contains the epicyclic torque splitter0 which in turn has bolted to it the front diff. and the VC. Can you confirm that I have understood you correctly please?
Andy

The croma has a FWD setup. It comes with a regular FWD gearbox. They put a viscous coupler outside the box, in the intermediate shaft between the gearbox and the right front wheel. The diff is fully locking. The integrale has the 4WD system and those diff and intermediate box parts are totally different from the croma.

The engine is basically the same as all the other 16V lampredi turbo engines. Details like cam, cam cover, ignition, turbo, some sensors and the sump will most likely differ. If you are looking to replace your broken 16V integrale engine with one from a croma, be prepared to strip all external bits from both engines, including the cams, and rebuild with parts from both.

Thanks very much. That is really helpful. Just what I needed to know.
Andy

You could also try for a Fiat 16V turbo Coupe. Those are far more common in the UK, I think.

I think what Andy is actually trying to do is eliminate the balancer shafts on the Integrale engine, so he is asking if the Croma block will accept the viscous coupling assembly and just bolt in place on an Integrale. Am I correct?

8V engine then? As far as I know the 16Vs all have the balance shafts?

A friend of mine is now in the middle of this build:

-Fiat croma block (bare block!!)
-16V integrale head, gearbox, diffs etc...
-internals wil be custom (forged pistons, conrods, etc)

If you give me a specific question I can check. But as far as I know it's suppose to be a straight forward swap. But naturally all internals have to be swaped for adopting to 16V.

As a side note, I do think you must find the correct block as the 2.0 liter turbo blocks witouth balance shafts were really rare! I think Croma was more available witouth the balance shafts only a few years. Also the Alfa Romeo 164 was available with a 2.0 8V turbo engine (NOT just the 2.0 V6) and that was also witouth the balance shafts.

This topic sprang from a suggestion from me to Andy since the donor engine kindly 'offered' to him from a well-known 'Integrale specialist' in the north of England is a pile of junk, leading to no more than a very long round trip and a day wasted at GCRE stripping the blasted thing. Thus until a replacement is found Andy's project is well, stuck.

Regarding the use of the 8v Croma crankcase - essentially the thing we are keen to know is: Is it possible to marry up the 16v Integrale gearbox/diff (etc) to that block (I know it bolts up the same at the FW end), in other words does it have the bolting points on the inlet side of the block? If alterations to the block are needed to provision additional bolting/dowel points on the Croma block is it 'do-able'.

Only reply if you know for sure please. Any photos would help.

Many thanks.

G

Thanks for the helpful replies. Guy has nailed the idea. From the sound of it, the conversion is possible. All I now need is a 2l. croma block!!
Andy

Have you tried looking at any online Fiat Parts catalogue. The Fiat ePER system can be very helpful and there are multiple versions hosted on the net.

I think the latest release is around v55. Search for the CROMA engine block and then check if the part numbers are the same as ones for the integrale.

They are not exactly the same, Chris, hence the topic!

G

So basically, he wants to know if an 8V engine block will bolt to the 4*4 gear box?

That is what I said above, yes!

Regarding the use of the 8v Croma crankcase - essentially the thing we are keen to know is: Is it possible to marry up the 16v Integrale gearbox/diff (etc) to that block (I know it bolts up the same at the FW end), in other words does it have the bolting points on the inlet side of the block? If alterations to the block are needed to provision additional bolting/dowel points on the Croma block is it 'do-able'.

G