Race Engine Forum UK

Sorry - I have no 16v 1800 OE data.

G

Guy Croft wrote:Sorry - I have no 16v 1800 OE data.

G

I need data for 8V TC.

Today I get another pair that's 100% guaranteed to be from a 2.0 i.e. engine and I will compare.

I don't know if you have my new book - but in case you haven't - don't use a pair of atmo cams in a turbo unit.

You always want a milder ex cam than inlet (lower peak lift and lift at TDC).

Off topic BUT - for those reading this and who wonder 'why should I buy his book?' I have gone to great lengths to discuss turbo instalations and what they need - cams, exhaust systems etc., all the stuff where DIY projects mostly fall down. The things I've written - you will not find anywhere else in one book - if at all.

GC

Still trying to raise funds for your book. Sadly finances are scarse at the moment. If I knew about your book 3 years ago I am sure I would rather buy the book than forged pistons.

I am buying them as a pair BUT i intend to keep the original exhaust camshaft to keep the overlap low and minimise the blow trough efect. So NA intake cam with the original turbo cam wheel and compleatly original exhaust cam+wheel combination. Quite a few words have been said on this topic on this forum and i intend to follow the guidlines.

For anyone asking why go trough so much trouble the answer is simple. I have two sets of turbo camshafts and one inlet has unevenly worn lobes difference between them 0,9mm and the other one looks a bit worn on the sides of the nose. Both exhaust cams are giving me a bit of a headache because the numbers on them do not corespond to anything in EPER... and yesterday when trying to measure lift it cam eout at 9mm which is too much to be original. Will repeat measurements today and report back.

Hello,

i turn to you again with a question that i have no idea who else to ask.

I recived a pair of 2.0. NA camshafts and did some measurements. They have cam lift of 10 mm so they are the correct type but there is a problem! It's hard to see from the picture but the part on the camshaft lobe where the ramp begins (circled in red) shows some wear! It can hardly be seen but when felt with your finger it just feels like it's been ground flat in that area. It shows the same on all lobes on both cams! But I have not seen this on the 1.8 or the turbo cams. Nose of the lobe shows some wear but nothing drastic.

Are this cams even usable or are they best discarded? Any ideas on what could have caused this?

Cause of wear there (if it is) is shimmed too tight.

1. Measure the lifts of each nose with a dial gauge and record it.

2. Then use a calliper to measure from base circle to nose and record them.

If you subract 1 from 2 it will tell you the base circle diameter.

If you see a significant difference (more than say a few thou") then maybe the base circle is damaged. What this means is that the ramp may be affected. You can only assess the (correct) shape of the ramp by mapping the cam lift by degrees while it is acting on a flat follower (a bucket).

To be honest running oyur finger over the ramp is perhaps the way to tell if the ramp is badly damaged. The ramp is low acceleration phase to get the valve moving before the main lift phase begins and if it is upset there can be valve float or bounce.

G

Hi,

as I don't have any access to Vblocks and a propper dial gauge I resorted to measuring the camshaft in the cam box. I simply used a caliper to measure the base circle and the nose lift and all lobes have 10 mm lift
-/+ 0,05mm so they seem to be worn equally and in the OE stated 10,03mm. So there is no evidence of damage to the noses. This I am sure of because on my turbo cams I have easly spoted uneven wear of 0,2mm with an ordinary caliper.

The only problem I have with them is that "flat" spot. I will try to get another pair to compare and will report back.

I have today finally recived the set of piston rings from Woessner.

Don't exactly know why and how but they managed to send me a set that was made for a 84.4 mm bore (like I have). But when I ordered my first set they were adement that they only make rings at 0.5mm intervals and that I had to "gap" them. These set also had to be gaped as the installed gap was around 0.2mm but less work to do so as the 84.5mm sets. I checked the thicknes, diameters etc. and the rest was the same as per the original set. In fact I used most off the rings from the first set as they were already gapped and only the top ring and one of the oil rings from this set.

So after an afternoons worth of fideling with this and proclaiming myself "The lord of the piston rings" I finally had a four cylinder engine!

Had done some more work in the last two days. Unfortunatley its going quite slow because I have managed to mix up al the nuts&bolts so it now takes me an hour to find the correct bolts every time I need 4 of the same kind. So you can immagine how frustrating it can be trying to fish out 16 bolts of the same mark, grade and lenght for the sump :)

Anywasy rods and crank were torqued and checked, oil pickup re-assembled,.... and I fabricated the upper sump gasket out of a grade 2 gasket paper material. On the integrale normal cork gaskets start leaking very soon so I am trying this to see if it's any better.

The build continues. As I still don't have my camshafts I am trying to build other stuff that I can. Today I installed the flywheel, clutch assembly and the central diff.

If by any coincidance anyone has the definition file for Tuner Pro software to programe the 8V integrale please contact me!

Today I bolted on the gearbox and some minor anciliries. Little by little....

This week I managed to inspect some more 2.0. NA Fiat camshafts and I have discovered that the "step" which I felt with my finger is in fact normal. Apparently it's just the ramp of the lobe that's more agressive than what I am used to. So the unacceptable news is that the cams I have are OK.

So I begun trial shimming too determine the correct shimms for the OE stated clearences. Happy to report that there were no unusual measurements. All shimms are between 3,9 and 4,4mm.

But I have run into a problem of discovering that the manifold bolts have been overtightened and have damaged to the point of striping the thread from the head. So I have to helicoil all of them now.

Since Remi and Guy planted the idea of improving the head I just couldn't let it go...

But since my head has already been renewed with new valve guides, three angle valve seat regrind.... I have to compromise. I can not afford at the moment the luxury of removing the guides and doing it all over again so I have to do my porting in sutch a way as not to damage anything.

As I have very little experience with porting I have decided to go easy and aviod beening over entusiastic. My plan is to remove casting imperfections, valve seat to port mismatch & deshroud the combustion chamber. I will not be changing the shape of the port, enlarging will be done only as much as is needed to blend in the removal of the casting imperfections.

I would like your thoughts on deshrouding, gasket matching and manifold porting. I have the following questions:

-DESHROUDING:
-From studying the site and your instructions I belive that deshrouding is concentrated more on the inlet side of the combustion chamber. Is this correct?

-GASKET MATCHING:
-Should I attempt to match the ports on the head and manifold to match the gasket? I belive the gasket is bigger than both ports which would lead to a port that converges on the head and a port that diverges on the manifold.

MANIFOLD PORTING:
-Is there any point to it? Ports are long and can not be reached by the grinder more than 5 cm inside which is only 1/3 or 1/4 of the entire lenght, the rest is un-accessable. As far as i can see the ports are quite rough on upper 2/3 of the ports but they are a lot larger in diameter than head ports.

I would appreciate any help or guidance.

Can you edit those monster photos please??!

G

Sorry about the size. I have resized them.