8v integrale head bolts "leaking"

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Uros Piperski
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Joined: September 4th, 2006, 10:55 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
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8v integrale head bolts "leaking"

Post by Uros Piperski »

Hi Guy, hi all,
I got the Integrale engine in my Dedra SW finally. As the engine warmed up for the first time some bubbles appeared from the head bolts. The bolts are M12x1.25 12.9 grade and I used Victor Reinz thread lubricant on the threads and washers then I torqued the head up (100Nm). The head gasket is OE bought from the Fiat dealership.
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102_0254.JPG (155.99 KiB) Viewed 6941 times
1. Is this normal or should I be worried? The lubricant stopped leaking after a few hours of engine running.
2. Do I need to retorque the head?
3. Is the torque of 100Nm adequate? I plan to run up to 1.5bar of boost.

Thanks!
Uros
Guy Croft
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Re: 8v integrale head bolts "leaking"

Post by Guy Croft »

100Nm is fine but for security I would actually retorque. The only ones I would not attempt are Ribe type.

The leaking will stop after a while, it is not unusual and is caused by the bolt threads (even in OE trim) not being 'blind' ie: some (most) of them on the 84mm bore units go right thru to the coolant chamber, see att.

GC
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Uros Piperski
Posts: 60
Joined: September 4th, 2006, 10:55 pm
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Contact:

Re: 8v integrale head bolts "leaking"

Post by Uros Piperski »

Guy, will the leaking stop in my case where I don't have the bolt head to seal the coolant?
Maybe I could use loctite when retorquing to seal the thread? (if it is ok to remove the nut completely for applying loctite)

BTW, as you see I have studs and nuts, not bolts like I wrote in the first post.

While we are at the topic of leaking studs and bolts, just to say that I just had to remove and seal the top two M8 bolts of the exhaust manifold. The oil was heavily leaking all over the turbo, oil separator and down the block. I saw the holes are not "blind" but then completely forgot to seal them on assembly.

Uros
Guy Croft
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Re: 8v integrale head bolts "leaking"

Post by Guy Croft »

Uros, I myself would do no more at this juncture than run it for several hundred miles - obviously checking the leakage at nuts and header tank frequently, it may well stop. If it's going to seal itself - it will stop much quicker if you drain the coolant and run it on plain water during that period but avoid heavy load as absence of antifreeze/water-wetter will upset the heat transfer in the head (ie: cause nucleate boiling written about elsewhere on the site recently by me). The modest corrosion that sets in may well 'do the trick' quicker.

If that shows no sign of working get hold of some 'Bars Leak' and put that in the cooling system. See:
http://www.barsproducts.com/barsleaks_products.htm

If that doesn't work - the thing will need to have the head taken off again and then I would be for sealing the studs into the block at point of propagation of the leakage in the top 4 threads with Loctite Hydraulic seal. Don't use Studlock or you'll never get them out again. Do not lubricate the studs themselves, first put copper-based anti-seize in the lower section of the female threads in the block and Loctite the top threads after. The Loctite will climb up the studs so be sure to wipe the block face clean after. The chance of sealing now at the nut end when it's all wetted as it is now, pretty well zero.

Hope this helps, I have exp this and seen it stop, albeit not with studs. And yes, the ex header top 2 studs need to fixed at low torque - about 4-5 lbf ft and with Loctite Studlock which has high holding strength. Often the nuts (14lbf ft) get overtightened and if that happens it doesn't matter how you fix the studs. Ideally there you want a stud with at least 12mm of thread engagement at the head end.



G
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