Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

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joro_d
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Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by joro_d »

Hi.

I have a problem with a Fiat Coupe 2.0 20V Turbo. It was found that the turbo was damaged. According to the information I was able to find the turbo for this engine was Garrett TB 2810.

What I am wondering now is could this turbo be replaced with a Garrett TB 0338 from Fiat Croma turbo i.e. or a Garrett TB 0367 from Lancia Thema 2000 Turbo?

Any opinion on the subject would be appreciated.

Regards.

Georgi.
Georgi Dimitrov
Testament
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by Testament »

The Croma and Thema use a Garrett T3 series turbo, this has a different flange to the T28 series as fitted to your coupe. They are of a similar size otherwise.

Are you looking for a performance increase, a cheap replacement, or the correct replacement?

If you are looking for a performance increase I would be looking at get a new Garrett GT28R this will bolt up and is a better turbo, ball bearing, better, higher flowing map probably should be available for 500-1000 euro I would think. If you are looking for a cheap replacement I would look at 2nd hand from a Nissan, they used T28's on most SR20DET engines in the Silvia/200SX and Pulsar/Sunny GTiR. I don't know what European cars would use them, possibly Volvo, Saab maybe?
Guy Croft
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by Guy Croft »

I was looking under the hood of a Mitsubishi Evo the other day, very similar engine to the 16v Integrale and wondering why one never hears about using Mitsubishi turbochargers.

They must be much more plentiful than OE Lancia type Garrett units? It's one thing to want a new turbo or upgrade but they are very hard to get hold of. There is certainly no shortage of suppliers in the UK offering performance replacement units fro Evos and Subarus.

Just a thought,

GC
ASF72
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by ASF72 »

Hi Guy,

The Mitsubishi Evo turbo is of twin scroll design therefore fitting them to a Lancia Delta/Fiat Coupe will be difficult unless you change the exhaust manifold and flange to twin scroll design, this is why they spool up so well and give a broader range of power, we use the twin scroll design alot now with the VAG 1.8T 20v engine and see power figures in the region of 400/500bhp depending on what boost levels we use.

Regards

Nino
Guy Croft
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by Guy Croft »

Thanks Nino,

I'm no expert but I'm not sure all the Subaru engines actually have a twin scroll housing as OE. There are claims for improved power from twin scroll (separated exhaust ports in the turbine housing, for those unsure what this is - it's not twin turbines). Each port in the scroll receives ex gas 'separately' from its respective cylinder bank. The Subaru of course has separate banks - being a flat four, but the Evo is an inline four isn't it? Cannot think of any reason why the Evo one could not be fitted to any of the F/L range, given that an adapter would be needed to marry to the Evo unit turbine housing. No reason, that I can immediately think of why a twin scroll design would not perform perfectly well on an inline unit either. However you present the exhaust gas energy to the unit it all ends up at the turbine anyway.


GC
1NRO
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by 1NRO »

I bought the collector I'm intending on using for my exhaust manifold fabrication some time ago, before I discovered a series of Mitsubishi turbo chargers that come with a single scroll but an outlet shape unique to them. Nothing amazing there other than the exhaust housing has an outlet for an v-banded external wastegate cast into it which catchs my eye no end. Makes for a neat manifold and instalation. If I was buy my collector again I'd get the flange to suit those turbo chargers fitted to it instead of the T3 I have now. Hindsight, again.

Guy, It is a very similar engine, particulary the combustion chamber. The exhaust ports are very different though, they are massive.

Nik
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Guy Croft
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by Guy Croft »

Thanks Nik

So...

anyone reading this got a turbo idea for the poster of the original thread please?

From what I have read here there are plenty out there that might know, given that selection is often - necessarily - based on successful personal and experience. The fact that the engine in question is 5 cylinders is, frankly, neither here nor there. It's just a 2 liter multivalve and key features in standard trim are 217 bhp at 5750 rpm and 229 lbf ft @2500 rpm so in my view could probably be treated as an Integrale 16v, really in terms of matching. I know it's got variable inlet valve timing but I imagine that won't affect the match to any great degree.

If it was me, I would buy a Mitsubishi Evo turbo unit, make the adapters and see what happens. Fuelling might need a bit of tinkering but unlikely to be a complete disaster!

Thoughts please.

GC
chrislandy
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by chrislandy »

The pulsar T28 turbos as mentioned should be similar and as long as they have the standard garrett T2 bolt pattern then should fit, although you may need to buy/make some adaptors for the compressor side. They are quite freely available in the UK for anywhere between £150+ (Second hand) and £300+ (reconditioned). If you want to buy new then the Garrett GT3071r-WG64 could be a good match (circa £900), I have seen it used very sucessfully on a Rover 2l engine with standard internals and even better when using uprated parts.
Testament
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by Testament »

Guy Croft wrote:I was looking under the hood of a Mitsubishi Evo the other day, very similar engine to the 16v Integrale and wondering why one never hears about using Mitsubishi turbochargers.
Mitsubishi turbos are very good, and probably have some of the best plain bearing units available. The use a different bolt pattern to garrett and would require a adaptor or manifold change + piping alterations.

Only the later model lancer evolutions have twin scroll turbos, from about evo 7 or 8 onwards. All models before that had various versions of single turbine entry TD05H. There was a change in turbine rotation direction from evo 3 to evo4 when the engine/gearbox layout was flipped around and head flow direction changed (to keep exhaust at the front of the car).
joro_d
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by joro_d »

I would like to thank all of you for being so helpful.
I didn't know about the lancer's twin scroll turbo. The more I am thinking over the more I realize that this would be a great decision of conducting exhaust gases into the turbine housing. Did anybody fit that kind of tubocharger to a Fiat engine?
Again - thank you.
Regards.

Georgi.
Georgi Dimitrov
robert kenney
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by robert kenney »

I can only second what was recommended earlier and that is to utilize a Garrett in the GT series. The benefits far outweigh the cost. Many have integral waste gates.
I have one of the smaller units, a GT25-54r that is going on a low rpm 2.5ltr engine I am building.

As many know the GT series is far reaching in size range. Has some of the best performance maps of any turbos.
Cartridge type angular contact bearings that are well suited to the high thrust abuse of a road course.
Low rotating friction for a quicker spool up.
Water cooled bearing housings
They survive the most extreme conditions pass after pass in import drag racing for years. Journal bearing turbos just don't do as well.

Just my recommendation........ Robert
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JDB
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by JDB »

I've got a rebuilt Croma Turbo if you decide it's what you want.

D
SteveNZ

Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by SteveNZ »

OE Mitsubishi turbos as fitted to Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru WRX models are very good units. However, they carry very obscure bolt up pattens on both the compressor and turbine housings. I don't know why, but I suspect cheaper manufacturing costs. Some units even incorporate the entire exhaust manifold with the turbine as a single casting. All these types are not at all user friendly and make an aftermarket installation unnecessarily difficult. Unless you are a pro fabricator and can do it all yourself its like reinventing the wheel, there is no need.

Bolt on turbo upgrades for Subaru and Mitsubishi are big business as generic aftermarket turbos are so difficult to fit to them. As there is a big enough market, turbo manufacturers, and even turbo retailers are now making there own Evo etc specific housings to fit aftermarket Garrett cores to them.

But we don't need to worry about any of that because Fiat is old school, they just use the same old generic Garrett flanges that have been around for the last 50 years! Fiat Coupe 20VT carries a Garrett T2 exhaust flange which is about the most common turbine flange fitted to small capacity engines on the market. Every turbo manufacturer will sell a turbo with a T2 flange ready to bolt up at the end of the day, you just have to find it. Mitsubishi/Greddy sell a range of aftermarket turbos with a T2 flange, and I'm sure something similar to an Evo turbo would be available, but they are not cheap.

Its hard to beat the Garrett GT series for value, range and availability. The GT2860R is almost a direct bolt up provided you buy all the little bits needed for the installation (as needed with any retrofit) and will provided up to 50HP more than the OE turbo with virtually none of the usual trade offs.
trickymex
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Re: Fiat Coupe 20VT - Replacement turbo problem

Post by trickymex »

I would not bother looking any further than a Garrett GT series turbo, i have done a fair amount of work with the 20vt now and the sheer choice you get from Garrett helps a lot

And your unlikely to get any real gain in performance with out some kind of trade off buy going with any of the other turbo's
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