Race Engine Forum UK

Guy!

Here is the first engine mounting report.

The engine is in !!!
The fly wheel was attached today.

Tomorrow : installation of the gearbox plus measuring the shaft ( with abarth diff the length will likely be different and we will have to shorten the shaft.

Next: connecting the oil cooler, oil filter, acusump, starter, generator, coolant radiator, new fuel lines, fuel pumps , fuel tank as well as connecting remaining ancillaries as well as one of the existing exhaust headers (will be replaced later for a one with proper primaries and secondaries length)

After this we will start first firing of the engine!!!!

Looks very good at this stage !!!!


Miro

More good news,

I was struggling with the front suspension , missing some key parts.

Finally I got the key missing parts front hubs , sway bar and reaction rods with mounting brackets.

Feast your eyes !
For all practical purposes we have all key front and rear suspension parts.

This is a major success, as getting them was neither quick , easy nor cheap.


Miro

For technical reasons and also on advice from GC I am switching from power assisted to manual steering gear.

Noticed the following differences :

The power assisted steering gear connecting rod has different and teeth. So the element of the steering column with cardan connectors is different - has to accommodate more delicate and fewer teeth.

Switching between power and manual steering gear means changing part of the steering column. ( Replacing half of the cardan facing the steering gear would do the trick but most of us do not have this part as spare. The part comes only complete with two cardans (one facing the steering gear and the other facing the rod going to steering wheel.
Picture blow explains it:
[ for GC : this comes from a OBR FSO reprint of original Fiat catalog and is NOT copyrighted ! ]
See some detailed pictures of the teeth differences .

Also note that some steering columns have a damper . This is the thick part of the lower rod facing the steering wheel.
So this is not as streight forwars as some think. Also note that the lower cardan should be covered by a rubber boot. Without it the delicate cardan needle bearings get exposed to water and mud - rust and consequently fail. This results in very uncomfortable and dangerous unpredictable resistanse on the steering wheel and may result in complete steering system failure.

This is picture of a part I got from a fellow in Turkey who has almost everything for a 131. Yoy will be surprised at the quality of parts he sells. They are as good or better tan Fiat originals ( all from Fiat Turkey!)

Will gladly share contact with Yagmur to interested members.


Miro

And here is some pictures of my new CD 68 originals on new Toyo0 195x50 x15 tires .
They do LOOK GOOD !

Miro

PS: Now we can start working on breaks !

With installation of the engine and the gear bx we were able to measure the required length og the main shaft.

It appears it must be shortened a bit.
Also measure was taken to make the protective flange (guard) and find the damper ...
This does not look like an easy task as the original Gr 4 flexible coupling was very different that standard 131 (including the Abarth) and such damper was non existent.

We will see what we can do !

Miro

Ups and downs

RE : Diff - I was shortened and now fits perfectly.

RE: Installation of the protective flange (guard) is not possible.

On original Abarth the distance between the Abarth gearchange extension and the flexible coupling (donut) leaves enough space to install the guard .
On a standard 131 (at least 2 liter with 5 gear gearbox) the distance between the flexible coupling (donut) and an "Abarth" gearchange extension is only about 10 mm. This is not nearly enough to mount the guard which (with a standard flexible coupling) has to be at last 180 mm in diameter.

Analyzing picture I took of an original corsa I noticed that the flexible coupling has 8 bolts (instead of standard 6 botls). This means that flange connecting the gearbox to the main shaft has either 4 arms ( instead of standard 3 ) or possibley no arms but a round disk with 4 bolts)

It also looks looks like there are two couplings installed . One in a standard fashion and an additional coupling from the shaft side. This may have served strengthening of this connection. With some engines as powerful as 230 hp this would make general sense.

As to the reason of larger distance between the Abarth gearchange extension and the flexible coupling there are only two (not mutually exclusive) possibilities.

One - the flexible coupling in an ex-works Abarth had a smaller diameter (not very likely, but possible).

Two : Different gearbox / gearchange extension combination provided more space between the bottom of the gearchange extension and the
flexible coupling (quite likely).

In fact given that Abarth had a different gearbox and very likely different Abarth gearchange extension the letter possibility look very likely.

(NOTE : Most believe that Colotti was the gearbox used on 131 Abarth. Well it was but only for the first few months. After few events of the first season Collotti proved to be too weak and too unreliable. Its housing was particularly weak, and it was replaced mid season by a stronger CIMA housing. The gearbox installed on ex factory cars starting the second rally season was not Colotti , but CIMA. From this point on all gearboxes used on Corsa were successive versions of CIMA.)

Anyway, it is most likely that the corsa gearbox simply gave more space between the bottom of the extension and the flexible coupling.

Incidentally the Stradale did not have the guard and also had no gearchange extension.

Miro

Here are some photo updates :

No time for much text .....
Ambitious plan is to have it on the road by August 15 !!!

Miro

Miro

couple of observations:

1. See below. You need to swap hose line 1 and 2 around so that the return line from the remote filter head (RFH) sees a 'straight run' to the engine, we can tolerate the accumulator hose being at 90deg to that line but not the main engine feed, the pressure drop turning through that angle is too high.
2. You need to start again with your hose - swivel fitting. The hose must go right up to the red cap as shown below. You may have to cut the hoses off and start again because to get the hose on you have to grease the tail of the fir-tree swivel and heat the hose in boiling water, beware of introducing debris into the oil lines - use an airline to blow out the hose. Anything downstream of the RFH will go straight into the engine bearings.

To be honest (and it's not exactly a high-def photo!) some of your swivels look like non-GC types, they look like ordinary hydraulic ones with no red cap. If that is the case I want to know asap.

If you need more hose let me know.

For those who wonder if the hoses should have clips - with Aeroquip 'push-on' hose and 'fir-tree' swivels (so-called because of the ribbed tail), categorically NOT. Adding a clip will cause fracture of the textile braid in the hose. There is a download below with notes on oil system accessories if you look carefully.


You must not hook up the final line to the front union on the GC take-off plate until you have manually filled the lines and cooler and filter and cranked up oil pressure and made sure is pumping out of that hose (into a bucket): only then should you connect up. Remind me to get the start-up instructions to you before you do this, there is a strict regime to follow.

GC

Guy,

In fact I have switched to all high pressure steel mesh reinforced hydraulic hose and matching machine pressure locked swivels.

From what you are saying this is not the thing to do ???.

It seemed to me that "my solution" would be more capable to withstand pressure (they are rated at 160 psi (!!!). The last thing I want is a major oil leak under the hood and the no clamp swivel to hose connections did not really look strong enough !

I have all the original swivels and can switch back to them if this is what you say. I may be missing few 90 deg. swivels and possibly some hose . Will check on Monday.

In view of your remarks I may have to modify the layout entirely...

Initial take at this would be changing the T piece connection making sure that the "to engine" is zero angle and "to accumulator" (accumulator to be rotated 180 degrees) goes through the T piece at 90 deg. See pictures.

(yellow - new connections / red removed connections)

Miro

Note: this is only a dry fit to see if this will work space wise.

We are still about a week from firing the engine - ( there is no fuel system to begin with) Before oiling the engine and starting it I will contact you by phone and follow the instructions to the letter !!!!

Guy,

We have been able to modify connections , by reducing number of 90 degree swivels compared to our own original design.

We also shortened the hoses.

We also have been able to use the extra hose we have nd revert to GC swivels as per your instructions.

Will take some pictures in the next few days , but we need additional swivels: one 45 deg and one 90 deg.

Miro

More rear caliper problems.

The Uno Turbo calipers we thought be bought some time ago were not for Uno Turbo . After engaging some real experts we determined it was for Alfa 147. Problem continued as the pads we got were without the guides which made them useless. Aditional experts egneged and we endenb up wih Polonez calipers and 227 disks. The good thing is that thy are straight "bolt on" and require zero modifications . The down side is they are not very strong : floating caliper construction and disk limited to 227 mm. We tried to put 240 and 257 disks , in each case not very successfully. Another downside : racing disks are not available for this model.

Decision was made to apply the simplest solution ( Polonez rear caliper with mechanical hand brake and 227 disk) until we can find the original calipers or calipers that bolt on to the hub directly and have the same mounting holes distance and can accommodate larger disks ( at least 240 , hopefully 257).

Incidentally w have found out that there were at last two kinds of rear hubs. One with two mounting holes for calipers and one with four mounting holes for caliper ( on opposite sides of the hub). Fortunately we had these spare and this allowed us to mount the caliper hub on the "front" side of the hub. Technicallyit does not matter until you start connecting the mechanical hand brake linkage. Connecting it from the rear of the car would pose some interesting technical and safety problems. Fortunately we have been able to avoid this, by having the two spare 4 hole rear hubs.

Miro

Re: airbox, air filter and air induction

I have decided to go for the following, pending your approval:

(As the first item (K&N ) appears to me not controversial I actually already bought it. I found is at only one place in Poland. The dealer bought one three years ago and could not sell - n m,erket fpr such high priced items - so he sold it to me "at cost" (140 GBP). Note: current dealer price is close to 200 GBP.)


1/ K&N Apollo Apollo Closed Induction System (see attached picture). It has between 60 and 100 mm air opening depending on adapter used).
2/ Pipercross 600 series airbox. ( available in 75 mm opening and 100 mm opening.)
It has a very interesting design inside and outside making sure that # 4 cylinder gets sufficient air:
What is more it is available with a blank base plate allowing preparing all openings to our needs (Weber IDF 44).
I have taken measurements and found the airbox would leave almost exactly one inch (24 mm) of space between .top pf the trumpets and the top of the of the airbox.

Also, because of very limited space between the hood and he top of the trumpets not much more than 78 mm ( the height of the airbox can be fitted here.

This is maybe not the best but it comes from reputable manufacturers of such products and is readily available - not adding to huge time delay we have developed . Manufacturing would add a least a week to our delay.


Do you approve ?

Miro

With GC approval for the above ware applying the induction/air box system as above.

More progress on other fronts ;

Rear brakes finally in place. For the time being this is based on 125 calipers ( which bolt straight to the abarth hubs ( no modifications required) , 227 Zimmerman disk (cut and drilled). need to find a bigger disks solution which would bolt straight on ( anybody knows what could be used in place of the 125p/Polonez calipers and accept 257 disks? )

The remote filter/ cooler /accusump system is also already mounted ( on picture w. one connection from thermostat to oil cooler as the two missing swivel fittings were received only yesterday).

The engine is getting closer to the first start !!!!

Also the 3,9 ratio diff with 25 LSD is ready and will be in garage next week.

Next tasks:

- hydraulic linkage to be built and fitted
- rear sway bar to be connected ( still waiting for the motosport (peloaded) spherical bearing rod ends
- fuel system to be fitted
- exhaust system to be fitted ( with some alterations to fit the new diff and suspension
- front hubs , arms, sway bar to be installed
- front grill repainted
- hydraulic front/rear adjustable connector to be installed
- seats , dash installation , etc.

Miro

NO NO NO Miro, DO NOT I repeat DO NOT buy the piper cross 600 air box, I had one it is a complete pathetic poorly made piece of poor. The design and material are realy poor, after 2 track days the box had cracked and delaminated on the join this was also experienced by my friends using them in the Alfa Romeo championship here in the UK. Also the filet element is really poor you could see the visable dirt in the air box. Pipercross had no interest in replacing it either. I moved to a Reverie air box who incidentally make a direct Px600 replacment in carbon for the very reason I mentioned - the review one fits the 600 back plate. Do not buy the Piper air box it will fail and may take your engine with it.

Hey your warning came too late , already paid for it.

Please send me contact to Reverie air box maker / on-line retailer.

I have few engines and maybe I will put Pipercross it on my standard engine ....

Too bad !!!!

Miro