Race Engine Forum UK

The Lancia Integrale / Fiat Coupe Weber type ecu system is quite good for fairly high power as proven by various Ford Cosworth owners.

My only gripe with it is that there is only 16 rpm points on the ECU which doesn't give enough scope to cover up to 8000rpm.

These can be changed I believe, but it would be a rpm point per 500rpm which I personally dont think is that great.

Guy Croft wrote:Phil,

I think what Romilos wants to know, with this Gems mapped ecu, is how is it set up for his engine.

As I see it, he either:

1. Forwards the details of his engine setup and the new map is modelled on this and he simply fits it and the engine runs fine with no other ecu mods. If this is the case which engine hardware parameters (CR, cam, flow work - there would be many I should have thought, not the least of which being the fuel system details, injector type and fuel pressures) are called for?

or

2) The ecu has a 'general' competition map for that engine that he has to remodel himself on the vehicle to 'fine tune' it. If this is the case can he do that and what is needed?

Which is it? As I have said before I am not a fan on non-experts getting involved in DIY mapping, the difficulties will be obvious to anyone who has done it. Thanks.

GC

Actually Guy, i would like to have infos for both 1,2.
I think that the almost 1000euros are a lot for a "standard" ecu.(standard=i cannot change it if i want changes, eg the rev limiter, idle etc).On the other hand i don t have any example of such work (like GEMS) so it is difficult to say if it very expensive or just expensive...(power for money)
Maybe for a car like evo that costs 50.000euros is a good solution.
But here in greece, with 600-700 euros i can change the engine block with a 1.6l and gain much more power.

As far as the Marelli-Weber system goes, I bought 2 chips for my IAW system from a guy called Ruben Aparici in Spain. He offered to write another chip, based on a dyno plot, to fine tune any problems that may come up. I have not needed to do that. Good service for 100 euro.

Steve you mean 100$ for both chips or for each?
Including taxes and shipping?
Your engine is oem?

romilos wrote: Steve you mean 100$ for both chips or for each?
Including taxes and shipping?
Your engine is oem?

Ruben Aparici is reasonably well known when it comes to Integrale tuning. His email address should be on the website somewhere.

He charged me 100 euro for 2 chips, 1 standard, 1 modified. I think that included shipping. No Tax in NZ for this.

Romilos - please now write to Gems (web address posted by G&G on previous page).

Let us know what happens.


GC

I spoke to Phill last weekend and he advised me that the Gems ecu is only a 'mappable variant', it cannot be plugged in and run without the usual dyno mapping/setup.

Phill remarked that this is quite normal and the chance of buying anything 'ready-to-run' is not high.

Phill is pretty busy so he asked me to post this.

GC

Another option is to make original Weber Marelli IAW ECU programmable. RP Lab (http://rptune.eu.org) offers this service, the cost is around Euro 500. It includes ECU mod, PC software for mapping and communication leads.

There are a few of start-up maps supplied, but if your engine is highly customized, then you would have to invest some time in tuning the maps to your particular engine (wideband lambda equipment will do the job nicely). But at least you won't start from scratch.

Basically it works like this: you send us your ECU, we perform tests to see if the box is ok, then install some additional hardware to make it programmable. This usually takes 3 days.

Best regards,
Nikola

Good reply Nikola and I know you come very highly recommended.

GC

NickRP wrote:.....

Nikola

Hello Nikola
It‚´s looking very interesting (and cheap) for me.You say that if I send you my original ECU ( 1995 Fiat coupe 2.0 16v non turbo - ECU 4Q4 blabla..I don‚´t know next numbers ) you will add some HW to make my ECU programmable and after this operation you send me ECU back with PC SW and communication cable for "only" 500Euro?Is it possible to make my ECU programmable?

I have some mods on my coupe and for next year I want to make some next mods -so it‚´s problem for me , because I must make new chip for every mod on engine and this operation isn‚´t comfortable for me and it‚´s very expensive (first custom chip - 600Euro , every next chip 150E).

I have some small problems now, because in my chip I coudln‚´t move with idle speed and it very unpleasantly when idle is 1000-1100rpm at warm engine , I need idle speed between 1500-1700rpm when is engine warm.This is lookin very well for me, because with this mod I could move idle to higher rpm and I could change maps cheaper after every mod on engine.And I could‚´t make new engine cable harnes with foreing senzors etc.

and some next question:
If you change the HW in ECU,the standart (or tuned) maps and integrated functions will save in the modified ECU, or ECU is clean without any maps and integrated functions (immobilization system)?

Can I tune modded ECU in my car over diagnostics connector?

I know about one problem.I don‚´t know if you sent the ECU in to Czech Republic...

Thanks for answer in advance.

Honza wrote: It‚´s looking very interesting (and cheap) for me.You say that if I send you my original ECU ( 1995 Fiat coupe 2.0 16v non turbo - ECU 4Q4 blabla..I don‚´t know next numbers ) you will add some HW to make my ECU programmable and after this operation you send me ECU back with PC SW and communication cable for "only" 500Euro?

Hello Honza. Your ECU is IAW 4Q4/P8, and support for P8 series of ECU's will be available in 2007. At the moment, we only convert earlier series of IAW ECU's, like the one that was used in pre '93 Tipo 2.0 16v, or Integrale 16v (pre Evo2), or Ford Sierra Cosworth (known as L8 ECU in Cossie world).

P8 ECU's are made to meet Euro 2 exhaust gas standards, while the units we currently convert are designed to reach Euro 1 regulations. But with careful mapping, this shouldn't be a problem.

So, the best solution for you would be to get an early Tipo 2.0 16v ECU (IAW 4Q1 - WF4Q1.08) and send it to us for modification. Yes, we'll do it all for 500 Euro (excluding shipping). After conversion, the ECU will also support both speed density and alpha-N indexed fueling, so this is a thing to go for if you plan to switch to individual throttle bodies and/or performance cams at some later point.

You would also get one extra user configurable output, that you could set up to drive for example shift light, radiator fan(s) or to trigger NOS...

For extra 100e we can enable distributorless ignition - so that you can run coilpacks, or pen coils (coil on spark). This ensures more energy for spark at higher revs.

Honza wrote:because I must make new chip for every mod on engine and this operation isn‚´t comfortable for me and it‚´s very expensive (first custom chip - 600Euro , every next chip 150E).

Well, this point was not completely clear to me. If your engine is going to be custom mapped for 600 Euro, that's reasonable price (prices are usually higher). And especially if every next mapping session is only 150 Euro, this is a real bargain. Hopefully no one here would mind if I say that I'm used to see prices in range from 800-1500 Euro for this service!

Honza wrote:I have some small problems now, because in my chip I coudln‚´t move with idle speed and it very unpleasantly when idle is 1000-1100rpm at warm engine , I need idle speed between 1500-1700rpm when is engine warm.

Which cams do you use? 1500-1700RPM of idle speed sounds strange (i.e. too high), I must admit, because I used to park idle speed to 1250RPM only when using 300 deg cams. Which cams do you use, how did you make cam timing, how big is the valve lift at TDC? How much vacuum is your engine pulling while idling? It could be that your vacuum signal is weak for speed-density operation.

Honza wrote:This is lookin very well for me, because with this mod I could move idle to higher rpm and I could change maps cheaper after every mod on engine.And I could‚´t make new engine cable harnes with foreing senzors etc.

If you need to have idle targed speed changed even on your existing ECU, this is not a problem, we can do it for you (you'd just need to provide wanted setpoints across engine temperature range).

Honza wrote:If you change the HW in ECU,the standart (or tuned) maps and integrated functions will save in the modified ECU, or ECU is clean without any maps and integrated functions (immobilization system)?

I am not completely sure I understood the question here, but I'd try to give an answer. If I miss the point, please excuse me. So, when you get the modified ECU from us, it has start-up maps, that are developed for your engine, however, when in standard (unmodified) form. But these maps are going to get your engine running, so that you can tune your car. This way it is easier for you, than to start from blank maps - there are many calibration parameters in the ECU that could stay the same, you need to customize maybe 25% of the values.

Honza wrote:Can I tune modded ECU in my car over diagnostics connector?

Yes, precisely. All you do is connect the communication lead to diagnostic connector on one side and laptop on the other side, and you're ready to go.

Honza wrote:I know about one problem.I don‚´t know if you sent the ECU in to Czech Republic...

We'll ship to Czech Republic with pleasure.

Hope this helps,
Nikola Radenkovic

Forgot to attach pics, sorry.

Guy

I made an search and I've decided to keep my old ecu.
I'll have the excellent advice in mind for a future need or for other friends-cars.

Thank you

RickRP: Thanks for answer

When I will have more time to write , I will send you private message or
e-mail with next questions.

I think that in first four months in 2007 I could be send you my ECU from tipo or coupe - simply the ECU what upgrade will available.