A man should have freedom to drive however_he_wants Miro, but after watching that thrilling film I feel a compelling urge to come to Poland and show you how to press the loud pedal harder!!
I want to see that glorious car stand on its nose coming into the chicane and hop round the barrels!
G
My 131 abarth (never ending) story - 2017 season updates
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Guy Croft
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miro-1980
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Tony ,
Thank you for your kind comment.
One my friends and fans of this car (who always worries I will damage the car racing and rallying ) said once: "Few more additions and you will not have to race it any more - you will win by mare showing the car off". I would not quite go that far (and give up racing it) but the car is coming out all right. Despite some compromises we had to make along the way it is reasonably accurate replica and a lot of fun to drive on a stage or on track. Every event is just plain old fashioned fun driving it.
On the other hand you have to be a real enthusiast to rebuild a car made originally only in 400 copies . But I'm very happy !
Thanks again
Miro
Thank you for your kind comment.
One my friends and fans of this car (who always worries I will damage the car racing and rallying ) said once: "Few more additions and you will not have to race it any more - you will win by mare showing the car off". I would not quite go that far (and give up racing it) but the car is coming out all right. Despite some compromises we had to make along the way it is reasonably accurate replica and a lot of fun to drive on a stage or on track. Every event is just plain old fashioned fun driving it.
On the other hand you have to be a real enthusiast to rebuild a car made originally only in 400 copies . But I'm very happy !
Thanks again
Miro
www.Fiat-abarth-rally.com
GC_93
GC_93
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miro-1980
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Guy ,Guy Croft wrote:A man should have freedom to drive however_he_wants Miro, but after watching that thrilling film I feel a compelling urge to come to Poland and show you how to press the loud pedal harder!!
I want to see that glorious car stand on its nose coming into the chicane and hop round the barrels!
G
Now see who's talking. This is the man who instructed me to brake it gently.
Well, Guy , do not judge the book by its cover (sorry for the double meaning to you and me). You ain't seen anything yet ! Just gimmie few times on the track in this car and I will be happy to take you for a noisy "pedal to the metal" , wide swings of the rear cornering ride. My learning curve is very steep , so it will not take too long before we start pushing it to win.
M
PS: I am thinking of 16v head engine ...
www.Fiat-abarth-rally.com
GC_93
GC_93
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Guy Croft
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
"This is the man who instructed me to brake it gently"
Readers, for the record - not in a million years. Break-it-in gently (not the engine, it's been dynoed) - bed down the whole installation with care.
Just pulling your leg, Miro!
G
Readers, for the record - not in a million years. Break-it-in gently (not the engine, it's been dynoed) - bed down the whole installation with care.
Just pulling your leg, Miro!
G
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miro-1980
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Well Guy,
The point is I am trying ( at all cost ) not to break it so I am breaking-it-in gently...
The engine is the least of my worries , though it takes a while to hear it and understand its various roars. It is probably more learning on my part then braking-it-in. As you said Guy key is to make sure all the parts were correctly put together, nothing gets loose, leaky, etc.
It may sound stupid but I need to understand cars "body language" ("feel the car dynamics in my bud") as well as "understand its melody" ( know what each particular set noises mean). With so many newly installed parts and components it takes some time to grow comfortable and remove all minor issues, which if unrecognized and unattended and may lead to a major disaster.
Happy 2011 to all members!
Miro
mildly edited by GC - some confusion over the word brake and break maybe. Semantics really, I know what you mean! And your careful approach is the best way by far.
The point is I am trying ( at all cost ) not to break it so I am breaking-it-in gently...
The engine is the least of my worries , though it takes a while to hear it and understand its various roars. It is probably more learning on my part then braking-it-in. As you said Guy key is to make sure all the parts were correctly put together, nothing gets loose, leaky, etc.
It may sound stupid but I need to understand cars "body language" ("feel the car dynamics in my bud") as well as "understand its melody" ( know what each particular set noises mean). With so many newly installed parts and components it takes some time to grow comfortable and remove all minor issues, which if unrecognized and unattended and may lead to a major disaster.
Happy 2011 to all members!
Miro
mildly edited by GC - some confusion over the word brake and break maybe. Semantics really, I know what you mean! And your careful approach is the best way by far.
www.Fiat-abarth-rally.com
GC_93
GC_93
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miro-1980
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
New year , new season,new work
Friends push me to finish the project , even though i still have not enough time to work on it.
The big plan for 2011 season is to install :
1/ full Abarth front suspension ( arms , sway bay , shocks and springs ) as well as ate RS 911 calipers (with 285 vented disks)
2/ finally install the sway bar in the rear
3 find and install rear non floating calipers mechanical had brake which will accommodate 240- 257 disk ( vented inf possible)
( BTW anybody knows what caliper would fit the Abarth hub mounting holes ?the holes distance and diameter are exactly the same as in 125p/Polonez?
4/ build and install install a gr 4 replica dash board
5/install anti fire system
Fortunately we have all the parts for items 1, 2 and 5 and we are on track with item 4. As I have posted a lot of pictures before on the suspension /caliper issues this time I will give you a preview into my work on the dash.
This is how the main gauge panel it looked recently and ho it looks now.
The goal is to have it look as close this as possible:
Key issue with the dash is the dash itself or the two aluminum sheets properly cut to install in place of the standard dash board.
Fortunately I got these some time go.
Second most important issue is the gauges. The original gauges were standard Veglia gauges with red dials. Unfortunately I have not come across these at all. So I decided to use the ones I have found (and bought). They are red ( good ), have an Abarth written on the dial ( good ) but are replicas (bad).
The good thing is that the diameter of these gauges is standard and each of the gauges can be easily replaced once I identify something better to buy. I have an original rev meter promised , but only later this year meter.
The rev meter I have is scaled only to 10 000 RPM which may not be enough for Guy's new engine , but we will live with it :) !
The third key element is the pull switches with lights. The original were taken probably from some Fiat truck, but no one has identified which truck, yet. So for the time being we will use the best replacement we can - a set of switches I got as a gift from my friend Jonathan ( thanks Jonathan !)
The rest of the task is really two fold plan it and build it :
1. plan the dash - make sure all the right indicator lights are there and positioned in a way to reflect priority and position on the dash co you can see them accordingly.
Top priority ( aside for centrally positioned RPM meter ) are :
a/ shift warning light
b/ oil pressure gauge and warning light
c/ oil temperature gauge and warning light
d/ coolant temperature gauge
e/ alternator warning light
f/ low brake fluid warning light
g/ fuel pump "on' and working indicator light
h/ radiator fan "on" warning light
I have planned to have the following elements on the dash :
1/ RPM
2/ oil pressure
3/ oil temperature
4/ coolant temperature
Note: I have two measuring points and may and up having two such gauges ( one on the dash and one below it) . I am bit over cautious
re coolant temp based on my previous 100 deg C + experiences
5/ Volt gauge
6/fuel level
7/exhaust temperature gauge ( to have some insight into the rich /poor mixture and prevent valve burn out or engine blow out )
it may end up below dash
8/external air temperature gauge also probably below the dash ( Do not laugh yet the sensor will be positioned inside cool intake system
through which the cool air will be delivered to carbs. As the system will full hermetic and separated from the heated under the bonnet. I
want to know the air temp that gets to the carbs and how it effects performance of the engine.
9/ accusump ( or oil accumulator ) pressure gauge to know if the solenoid switch works properly and the oil is pushed into the engine when
needed.
Planned warning lights :
1/ alternator
2/ oil press
3/ oil temp
4/ shift
5/brake
Indicator lights:
1/ radiator fan on ( with manual override switch)
2/ lights on ( with switch )
3/ headlights no ( with switch )
4/ high beam on
5/ turn signal on
6/ fog lights on (with switch)
7/ Carello Megalux on (with switch )
8/ hazard on ( with switch)
9/ cockpit light on ( to light up Halda's and clock /stop watch as well as to give pilot a map light )
10/ rear window heater on (with switch)
11/ fuel pump on ( with three position switch to switch between the two pumps)
12/ cockpit ventilator on ( possibly with multi-position switch.
13/pilot asleep ( with buzzer and flashing warning light )
This is all I have figured so far. and it is lot to fit on the dash which is also to accommodate all fuses and relays ...
I really also would like to have a speedometer , but I need to figure out how to manage the change of differentials from 3.9 to 6.14 and get accurate reading ...
Now the final stage : installation and connection. Installation is a fairly straight forward mechanical task, but moving relays and fuses is vary much not an easy task ( unless you are an auto electrician.
We have at this stage decided to keep the box as is , except to ad extension wires to be able to move the relays and fuses to the dash front. I looked up the wiring system of the 131 fuse box and was scared to even thing about any changes to it is a real labyrinth of wires and I am not about to let anybody tinkle with it . I decided we will just put extension wires for the relays and fuses to be able to move them to the front of the dash - this is it. All the connections in the fuse box remain as is. Otherwise we would face building the whole wiring system of the car anew. Now, this IS possible , but I want to drive it , not just keep building it. l also imagine this would cost me lots of cash as well as be unreliable ( at least initially !)
Finally some pictures of the work in process ....
Love these flexible flip switch extensions :
And for the very end : anybody has these elements spare ???? :
Fuse panel
Vent heat controls ( complete )
Abarth speedo
Will post more pictures and the (never ending) story of 2011 update as progress is made ....
Miro
Friends push me to finish the project , even though i still have not enough time to work on it.
The big plan for 2011 season is to install :
1/ full Abarth front suspension ( arms , sway bay , shocks and springs ) as well as ate RS 911 calipers (with 285 vented disks)
2/ finally install the sway bar in the rear
3 find and install rear non floating calipers mechanical had brake which will accommodate 240- 257 disk ( vented inf possible)
( BTW anybody knows what caliper would fit the Abarth hub mounting holes ?the holes distance and diameter are exactly the same as in 125p/Polonez?
4/ build and install install a gr 4 replica dash board
5/install anti fire system
Fortunately we have all the parts for items 1, 2 and 5 and we are on track with item 4. As I have posted a lot of pictures before on the suspension /caliper issues this time I will give you a preview into my work on the dash.
This is how the main gauge panel it looked recently and ho it looks now.
- Kopia Kopia new dash 2.JPG (216.05 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
The goal is to have it look as close this as possible:
- cockpit 1.JPG (315.31 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
Key issue with the dash is the dash itself or the two aluminum sheets properly cut to install in place of the standard dash board.
Fortunately I got these some time go.
- kit .jpg (24.34 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
The good thing is that the diameter of these gauges is standard and each of the gauges can be easily replaced once I identify something better to buy. I have an original rev meter promised , but only later this year meter.
The rev meter I have is scaled only to 10 000 RPM which may not be enough for Guy's new engine , but we will live with it :) !
- IMG00164-20110121-0000.jpg (88.01 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
The third key element is the pull switches with lights. The original were taken probably from some Fiat truck, but no one has identified which truck, yet. So for the time being we will use the best replacement we can - a set of switches I got as a gift from my friend Jonathan ( thanks Jonathan !)
- IMG00165-20110121-0019.jpg (70.68 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
1. plan the dash - make sure all the right indicator lights are there and positioned in a way to reflect priority and position on the dash co you can see them accordingly.
Top priority ( aside for centrally positioned RPM meter ) are :
a/ shift warning light
b/ oil pressure gauge and warning light
c/ oil temperature gauge and warning light
d/ coolant temperature gauge
e/ alternator warning light
f/ low brake fluid warning light
g/ fuel pump "on' and working indicator light
h/ radiator fan "on" warning light
I have planned to have the following elements on the dash :
1/ RPM
2/ oil pressure
3/ oil temperature
4/ coolant temperature
Note: I have two measuring points and may and up having two such gauges ( one on the dash and one below it) . I am bit over cautious
re coolant temp based on my previous 100 deg C + experiences
5/ Volt gauge
6/fuel level
7/exhaust temperature gauge ( to have some insight into the rich /poor mixture and prevent valve burn out or engine blow out )
it may end up below dash
8/external air temperature gauge also probably below the dash ( Do not laugh yet the sensor will be positioned inside cool intake system
through which the cool air will be delivered to carbs. As the system will full hermetic and separated from the heated under the bonnet. I
want to know the air temp that gets to the carbs and how it effects performance of the engine.
9/ accusump ( or oil accumulator ) pressure gauge to know if the solenoid switch works properly and the oil is pushed into the engine when
needed.
Planned warning lights :
1/ alternator
2/ oil press
3/ oil temp
4/ shift
5/brake
Indicator lights:
1/ radiator fan on ( with manual override switch)
2/ lights on ( with switch )
3/ headlights no ( with switch )
4/ high beam on
5/ turn signal on
6/ fog lights on (with switch)
7/ Carello Megalux on (with switch )
8/ hazard on ( with switch)
9/ cockpit light on ( to light up Halda's and clock /stop watch as well as to give pilot a map light )
10/ rear window heater on (with switch)
11/ fuel pump on ( with three position switch to switch between the two pumps)
12/ cockpit ventilator on ( possibly with multi-position switch.
13/pilot asleep ( with buzzer and flashing warning light )
This is all I have figured so far. and it is lot to fit on the dash which is also to accommodate all fuses and relays ...
I really also would like to have a speedometer , but I need to figure out how to manage the change of differentials from 3.9 to 6.14 and get accurate reading ...
Now the final stage : installation and connection. Installation is a fairly straight forward mechanical task, but moving relays and fuses is vary much not an easy task ( unless you are an auto electrician.
We have at this stage decided to keep the box as is , except to ad extension wires to be able to move the relays and fuses to the dash front. I looked up the wiring system of the 131 fuse box and was scared to even thing about any changes to it is a real labyrinth of wires and I am not about to let anybody tinkle with it . I decided we will just put extension wires for the relays and fuses to be able to move them to the front of the dash - this is it. All the connections in the fuse box remain as is. Otherwise we would face building the whole wiring system of the car anew. Now, this IS possible , but I want to drive it , not just keep building it. l also imagine this would cost me lots of cash as well as be unreliable ( at least initially !)
Finally some pictures of the work in process ....
- IMG00159-20110120-2358.jpg (79.59 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
- IMG00154-20110120-2356.jpg (41.03 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
- IMG00161-20110120-2358.jpg (70.61 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
- IMG00169-20110121-0020.jpg (101.47 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
- IMG00168-20110121-0020.jpg (68.54 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
And for the very end : anybody has these elements spare ???? :
Fuse panel
- fuze box 1.jpg (58.76 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
- fuze box 2.jpg (39.26 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
Vent heat controls ( complete )
- HEATER VENT CONRTOL PANNEL 1 .jpg (36.18 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
- SPEEDO.jpg (22.86 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
- SPEEDO 1.jpg (22.79 KiB) Viewed 14770 times
Miro
Last edited by miro-1980 on January 21st, 2011, 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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miro-1980
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
This thread has just topped 14 000 visitors !
Thank you all !
I promise to keep as as interesting as I can and once the season starts to offer some adjustment tuning data as well.
Miro
PS : Thank you GUY !
Thank you all !
I promise to keep as as interesting as I can and once the season starts to offer some adjustment tuning data as well.
Miro
PS : Thank you GUY !
-
Guy Croft
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5039
- Joined: June 18th, 2006, 9:31 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Nice to see you again Mr President!
G
G
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TomLouwrier
- Posts: 333
- Joined: July 28th, 2010, 3:09 pm
- Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
hi Miro,
Really great car, so nice to see what you are doing with it.
Concerning your speedo and changing the diff ratio: on my Bagheera (engine behind the passengers) the speedo is connected directly to the front wheel hub. This is on a front suspension that was designed for front wheel drive.
I'm not too sure about your front hub, but having searched this thread for pictures I'm pretty sure you could use same method. That way your speedo will be independant of any change you make to the diff ratio. Of course your speedo must be calibrated to match the size and rpm of your wheel.
regards
Tom
Really great car, so nice to see what you are doing with it.
Concerning your speedo and changing the diff ratio: on my Bagheera (engine behind the passengers) the speedo is connected directly to the front wheel hub. This is on a front suspension that was designed for front wheel drive.
I'm not too sure about your front hub, but having searched this thread for pictures I'm pretty sure you could use same method. That way your speedo will be independant of any change you make to the diff ratio. Of course your speedo must be calibrated to match the size and rpm of your wheel.
regards
Tom
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miro-1980
- Posts: 687
- Joined: December 3rd, 2007, 3:40 pm
- Location: Warsaw suburb , Poland
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Tom,
This sounds like what I was looking for.
The hub looks like this:
I have just asked a friend who used to own Bagheera for some details ..
Do you have any details as well ?
Miro
This sounds like what I was looking for.
The hub looks like this:
- frot hub.jpg (13.87 KiB) Viewed 14735 times
Do you have any details as well ?
Miro
-
miro-1980
- Posts: 687
- Joined: December 3rd, 2007, 3:40 pm
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
The friend just called back. Hhs Bagheera has the seedo connected to the gearbox.
PS this is the dashboard update
PS this is the dashboard update
- Attachments
-
- dash scan small .jpg (61.03 KiB) Viewed 14642 times
-
- dash look 1.jpg (134.58 KiB) Viewed 14640 times
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TomLouwrier
- Posts: 333
- Joined: July 28th, 2010, 3:09 pm
- Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
- Contact:
Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
hi Miro,
Sorry, I know my car ;-)
If your friend has the speedo connected to the box, then it is not the original setup.
I found a picture showing the correct Matra solution: the left front axle has a small square hole on the inner end, in which the cable to the speedo is fitted with a bracket. The bracket shares its bolts with the brake caliper.
By the way, this is actually not my own car, but the picture was taken by a French guy doing an incredibly thorough restoration on his Bagheera. I borrowed this picture from the forum where he publishes about it.
regards
Tom
Sorry, I know my car ;-)
If your friend has the speedo connected to the box, then it is not the original setup.
I found a picture showing the correct Matra solution: the left front axle has a small square hole on the inner end, in which the cable to the speedo is fitted with a bracket. The bracket shares its bolts with the brake caliper.
By the way, this is actually not my own car, but the picture was taken by a French guy doing an incredibly thorough restoration on his Bagheera. I borrowed this picture from the forum where he publishes about it.
regards
Tom
- Attachments
-
- Matra Bagheera front hub, showing the speedo cable mounted to the axle
- bagheera front hub.jpg (84.39 KiB) Viewed 14618 times
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miro-1980
- Posts: 687
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Tom,
this look simple enough , but I was just wondering , what makes the cable spin. There must be some sort of gear connected to what : the disk rotor ?
Sorry but my imagination fails me ...
M
this look simple enough , but I was just wondering , what makes the cable spin. There must be some sort of gear connected to what : the disk rotor ?
Sorry but my imagination fails me ...
M
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TomLouwrier
- Posts: 333
- Joined: July 28th, 2010, 3:09 pm
- Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
- Contact:
Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Miro,
Maybe I'm sending you up the wrong path. I need to see the other side of your front hub assembly as well.
Main question: do you have a fixed axle stub, in one piece with the upright (or king pin) like the 124? Or do you have a short stub axle running inside the wheel bearing (with the outer bearing ring inside the upright)?
regards
Tom
Maybe I'm sending you up the wrong path. I need to see the other side of your front hub assembly as well.
Main question: do you have a fixed axle stub, in one piece with the upright (or king pin) like the 124? Or do you have a short stub axle running inside the wheel bearing (with the outer bearing ring inside the upright)?
regards
Tom
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miro-1980
- Posts: 687
- Joined: December 3rd, 2007, 3:40 pm
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Re: My 131 abarth (never ending) story 2011 season update
Tom,
This is very much UN-like 124 ! see attached pictiures:
What do you think ?
Miro
This is very much UN-like 124 ! see attached pictiures:
- hub front 1 .jpg (14.09 KiB) Viewed 14600 times
- frot hub 2.jpg (64.88 KiB) Viewed 14600 times
Miro
- Attachments
-
- frot hub 3.jpg (117.49 KiB) Viewed 14600 times
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