Hi Guy !
my first post so hello to everyone! I have 205 1.9 8v D6B engine and been doing some D.I.Y head porting so can you tell me is this of any good ?
Please comment is this of any good ? This is my first time doing this so basically I didn't remove too much metal in any part of inlet or exhaust port but concentrating on generally tidying sharp edges and casting imperfections.
I didn't modified or enlarge inlet port entry, just smoothed the short side radius on inlet and exhaust port, removed lip where the valve seat meets the port, the ridge outside the valve seat between the valve seat and combustion chamber, and started with polishing combustion chamber today.
Can you advise me? (Without the flowbench and by myself )
Thanks and sorry if I write something wrong , I'm doing my best,
Damir
peugeot 205 gti 1.9 head ...
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DamirGTI
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peugeot 205 gti 1.9 head ...
- Attachments
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- Here i was started polishing combustion chamber .
- combustion chamber.jpg (242.71 KiB) Viewed 13777 times
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- In this picture i have remove the ridge wich was deep inside the bottom of the throat with small stone and i didn't take too much metal .
- inlet throat.jpg (170.85 KiB) Viewed 13780 times
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- In this picture the red arrow is pointing on area where the valve seat meets port and there was sharp lip which i have lightly smooth with little stone .
Blue arrow is pointing on outer area around the valve seat where was a slight ridge between combustio - valve seat.jpg (203.34 KiB) Viewed 13780 times
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- This is the exhaust port short side radius which I have smooth up with three different grades of sanding paper .
- exhaust short side radius 1.jpg (178.38 KiB) Viewed 13784 times
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- This is the inlet port short side radius , which have smooth up also with three different grades of sanding paper .
- inlet short side radius 1.jpg (156.07 KiB) Viewed 13782 times
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Guy Croft
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Hi Damir,
well done, much better photos.
I have read your notes carefully and yes, all the work you have done so far is good.
You won't be able to do any more useful work to the short side radius on the inlet without a flowbench unfortunately, it is very sensitive to shape on that head.
Smoothing of the inlet port and ex port next - 80 grit is fine enough.
Do you have valve seat tools?
The heads shown below both made over 170bhp in full spec rally trim, on Piper cams - with standard valve sizes, on throttle bodies (Jenvey/DTA).
GC
well done, much better photos.
I have read your notes carefully and yes, all the work you have done so far is good.
You won't be able to do any more useful work to the short side radius on the inlet without a flowbench unfortunately, it is very sensitive to shape on that head.
Smoothing of the inlet port and ex port next - 80 grit is fine enough.
Do you have valve seat tools?
The heads shown below both made over 170bhp in full spec rally trim, on Piper cams - with standard valve sizes, on throttle bodies (Jenvey/DTA).
GC
- Attachments
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- GC spec seat on such a head, 45 deg x 1.75-2mm contact face, 75 deg throat, 20 deg top grind. This done with Peg grinder but Neway is good too (see links). Scrap tests showed guide boss doesn't present much intrusion in fact, I just reshaped it a bit.
- Peugeot 205 reground seat cc view.jpg (117 KiB) Viewed 13761 times
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- Here's one where another firm already removed the guide boss, I removed their (worn) guides, tidied the port, fully reworked the seat and the ssr and fitted new GC guides. Gains came from all that (esp ssr at mid lifts), and inlet manifold reshaping &
- D Guest Peugeot 205 GTI GC reworked seat.jpg (117.63 KiB) Viewed 13759 times
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- Sidedraft manifold loss as-supplied was huge, I got rid of this by matching (it was way off ) and removing the bulges inside.
- Peugeot in man loss region marked.jpg (110.85 KiB) Viewed 13755 times
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DamirGTI
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Hi Guy !
Are you thinking on tools for cutting valve seats ? if so , no i don't have one , but i can take the head to machine shop they can do this for me i think .
What seat angle is best for this head ? Wow 170bhp is great output ! how much hp can worth this what i have made ? is it possible around 5 hp ?
Thanks !
Are you thinking on tools for cutting valve seats ? if so , no i don't have one , but i can take the head to machine shop they can do this for me i think .
What seat angle is best for this head ? Wow 170bhp is great output ! how much hp can worth this what i have made ? is it possible around 5 hp ?
Thanks !
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Guy Croft
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Damir, hi
Now - My recommended valve angles are given in the captions with the photos. I suggest you print the thread.
Your work - well, it is going to develop a gain, but without putting it on my flowbench and measuring the increase in flow & with the valve too, I have no idea at all. I do my best to help but sorry to disappoint you. I bought the flowbench for that reason you understand. What you have is the right kind of work with the tools you have and that's great by me, but the bhp result will be, well, guesswork. I won't do that really. The gain will be better with a good valve seat job for sure. I wish for good results for you.
GC
Now - My recommended valve angles are given in the captions with the photos. I suggest you print the thread.
Your work - well, it is going to develop a gain, but without putting it on my flowbench and measuring the increase in flow & with the valve too, I have no idea at all. I do my best to help but sorry to disappoint you. I bought the flowbench for that reason you understand. What you have is the right kind of work with the tools you have and that's great by me, but the bhp result will be, well, guesswork. I won't do that really. The gain will be better with a good valve seat job for sure. I wish for good results for you.
GC
- Attachments
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- GC prepped Peugeot 205 GTI 1600 head on full-spec motor. After careful bench dyno mapping by my friend Dr Keith McMullen at Cork Inst Technology (CIT), Eire, this is the rolling road plot. Power drops off at top end only because the throttle is lifted off
- Peugeot 1600 8v power & torque resized.jpg (59.3 KiB) Viewed 13743 times
Last edited by Guy Croft on January 29th, 2007, 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DamirGTI
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DamirGTI
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Hello Guy !
I have some new photos that i wish you to comment :
also i have finished with the head porting , just need to make three angle seats and that's done .
Thanks !!
Damir
I have some new photos that i wish you to comment :
also i have finished with the head porting , just need to make three angle seats and that's done .
Thanks !!
Damir
- Attachments
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- Inlet valve throat - final shape .
- inlet valve throat.jpg (146.74 KiB) Viewed 13699 times
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- Removed little edge which was between the valve seat inserts and combustion chamber .
- valve seats outer ridge removed.jpg (195.78 KiB) Viewed 13702 times
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- Short side radius on two exhaust ports - final shape .
- short side radius on exhaust ports.jpg (186.81 KiB) Viewed 13703 times
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- Short side radius on two inlet ports - final shape .
- short side radius on inlet ports.jpg (196.45 KiB) Viewed 13700 times
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- Finished with combustion chamber polishing .
- combustion chamber.jpg (185.86 KiB) Viewed 13699 times
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- And i have finish my head today , nothing i can do more without some better tools .
- head.jpg (221.39 KiB) Viewed 13702 times
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- Same thing from other angle - inlet port entry with removed square corner .
- inlet ports 2.jpg (200.85 KiB) Viewed 13703 times
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- Here you can see that i have remove same square corner from upper inlet port entry wall , it was in the same place as one on the inlet mainfold side . Again is this good ?
- inlet ports 1.jpg (151.4 KiB) Viewed 13702 times
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- Same thing but in view from other angle - inlet mainfold with removed corner .
- inlet mainfold 2.jpg (156.53 KiB) Viewed 13706 times
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- On this picture you can see that i have remove square corner which was around injector holes on inlet mainfold . Was this oright thing to do ?
- inlet mainfold 1.jpg (170.65 KiB) Viewed 13706 times
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Guy Croft
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DamirGTI
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Guy Croft
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By far and away the best valve shape is a penny-on-a-stick, almost flat on the back with a modest radius where the head joins the stem, see photo. You can produce that shape (grinding carefully) from the OE valve (at right).
I found this out for myself when testing a range of valves on a head I was overhauling (originally prepped by UK's Richard Longman and Co.). The head had 'dropped a valve' when the crank key sheared. I tested several valve profiles out of curiosity but - to their credit - the Longman race valves were way better than anything I could dream up, so I bought from them. First time I had seen a true 'penny on a stick' valve work.
A good race valve for that head would be very similar (close enough to make no difference) to my dummy valve in the picture, maybe just a bit flatter on the back.
GC
I found this out for myself when testing a range of valves on a head I was overhauling (originally prepped by UK's Richard Longman and Co.). The head had 'dropped a valve' when the crank key sheared. I tested several valve profiles out of curiosity but - to their credit - the Longman race valves were way better than anything I could dream up, so I bought from them. First time I had seen a true 'penny on a stick' valve work.
A good race valve for that head would be very similar (close enough to make no difference) to my dummy valve in the picture, maybe just a bit flatter on the back.
GC
- Attachments
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- Development (ie: trial) valve of my own making (!) at left, OE 205GTi valve at right. Ex valves on std head need no mods really.
- Peugeot 205GTi dev valve left, std right.jpg (120.53 KiB) Viewed 13664 times
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DamirGTI
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hello Guy !
Great thanks ! but is there some limit of how much material can be removed from valve stem (undercut) and from that area where the head joins the stem ?
Can that kind of modifided valve be dangerous in some way to break , bend or something else ? because i have a plan to fit flat top pistons from 205 1.9 DFZ engine (same type pistons as ones in the 205 1.6 engines) in my 1.9 D6B engine ( i have a dished pistons now , see photo below ) prior to raising the CR from 9.6:1 to 11.5:1 will that modified valve stand excessive heat of higher compression ?
Damir
Great thanks ! but is there some limit of how much material can be removed from valve stem (undercut) and from that area where the head joins the stem ?
Can that kind of modifided valve be dangerous in some way to break , bend or something else ? because i have a plan to fit flat top pistons from 205 1.9 DFZ engine (same type pistons as ones in the 205 1.6 engines) in my 1.9 D6B engine ( i have a dished pistons now , see photo below ) prior to raising the CR from 9.6:1 to 11.5:1 will that modified valve stand excessive heat of higher compression ?
Damir
- Attachments
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- This type pistons i have now in my engine , and that is XU9ja 1.9 8v D6B .
- dished piston from 205 1.9 D6B engine copy.jpg (182.1 KiB) Viewed 13661 times
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Guy Croft
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Damir, hi
you'll have to try and copy my valve, gauge the reduction in thickness from the OE valve. I cannot give you a drawing sorry!
Provided you leave a radius like I have and don't make the valve head any thinner than mine they won't cause any problems. The inlet valve is being cooled on every intake stroke, so they don't get anywhere as hot as the ex valves and can be much thinner sectio. Don't modify the ex valves, OK?
GC
you'll have to try and copy my valve, gauge the reduction in thickness from the OE valve. I cannot give you a drawing sorry!
Provided you leave a radius like I have and don't make the valve head any thinner than mine they won't cause any problems. The inlet valve is being cooled on every intake stroke, so they don't get anywhere as hot as the ex valves and can be much thinner sectio. Don't modify the ex valves, OK?
GC
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DamirGTI
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