Turbo choice for 8v fast road Delta Integrale

[Testament]

Would ordinary steel be ok with the heat in this area?

mild steel is fine, just use a reasonable thickness for flanges something like 10mm to 1/2" is good

[pacman]

What´s important is to use flange material with the same thermal extraction as the piece you are welding it on to.
We are talking about temperatures on the exhaust manifold of about 1600 - 1800 F.
For example if you have a 18% Cr stainless steel manifold you would not want to weld on a low alloyed steel plate. The welds might crack on the first run.

To be sure, check the material in the manifold or downpipe before welding a flange on it.
If you´re fabricating an adapter piece, use similar material in pipes and flanges.

//Peter

[RedLexus]

any updates on this project?

[lovhoiden]

Hi!

Thanks for the feedback, guys! As the turbo I've bought doesn't fit bolt on to the exhaust manifold, I think I'm going to buy a new turbo. I might end up buying a 16V turbo which I believe will fit, and will be adequate.

The cylinder head has been slightly modified (porting of exhaust and inlet), and I'll need a new custom chip which I'll get by the end of September (I hope...).

I haven't fully understood the difference between a 8V turbo and the 16V turbo. Is the 16V turbo the same for all models (non-EVO, EVO I and II)? As far as I've understood, the 8V non-cat turbo has the biggest spool, but is this an advantage? What I want is a turbo that gives boost at a lower rev and doesn't spoil the effect at higher revs... Which turbo would satisfy my needs...?

[Testament]

A new GT series garrett would probably be best, something like a GT28R if you are really concentrating on lower rpm and will still support 300+hp. You can get these with a T3 flange and internal wastegates so should pretty much bolt up, may have to do some work with the oil and water lines and maybe the air inlet/outlet but nothing too difficult.

[RedLexus]

do all the Delta Garretts have the same flange? I want one with less lag , and not worried about much more top end power.

[SteveNZ]

All Fiat 2L turbos have the same flange, a Garrett T3.

Integrale 8V had a .63 turbine, the largest used by Fiat so it will take the longest to spool. Any of the others will give less lag, Integrale 16V will be a good choice or even a Croma or Coupe turbo will do. You can make more than the standard power output with any of these.

The other option is to fit a smaller turbine housing to your standard turbo, it will have the same effect.

[emil]

Hello,
I have fairly good insight in the turbos used in Saab cars and can provide you with some further info. My experience is that Mitsu turbos are of higher and more even quality than units from Garrett but that's just my opinion.

Just to clarify, the flange type your car has is (as already mentioned) called T3, and on newer Saab´s the flange is slightly smaller, called T25. Making an adapter between these should not pose a problem.
Since someone asked, the 15t/16t/17t etc. compressor designations on Mitsu turbos is actually pretty hazy but according to them (Mits.) it is the value in corrected mass flow (x-axis on compressor map, y axis is pressure ratio) where the compressor has its highest efficiency: 16t = 0.16kg/s.

Assuming you are running on gas (not E85 or other) a 15t will produce 280bhp or slightly more (up to approx. 300) if internal and external gas exchange is up to par (gas flowed head, intake manifold , ex manifold, nice big turbine outlet and low intake pressure drop). 16t can produce air enough for 310-330bhp, 19t 360-370bhp.
Reading your posts I understand you want pretty quick spool up, and not at very high rpm. 5, 6 and 7cm2 turbine housings are readily available (7cm2 not available in Saab, but in Volvo guise). I would recommend a 6cm2 housing, just like the one you already purchased, but to simplify fitting it you could always swap the turbine housing and use one found on Saab 9000 200bhp and 225bhp versions. The swap is very easy!

If you want to translate to Garrett numbers:
5 cm² = 0.34 A/R
6 cm² = 0.41 A/R
7 cm² = 0.49 A/R
approx..

You can also have a look at the following link with lots of great info, but only covers compressors up to 16t:
http://hem.passagen.se/lahi/turbo/TD04.pdf

Since it was a while since anyone last posted in this thread this might be obsolete.. Anyway, good luck!
Best regards,
Emil

[Squadracorse]

Hello Emil,

I hope you are still in this forum, it has been for me quite a while.
Currently I am building a new engine for my Lancia Delta Integrale 8V for Dutch and German autocross. Its totally different from that "autograss" in the UK / USA.
Just to let you see what we are involved in, you can take a look at Hyves, which has some pictures (down left) and video's (down right) from our car and races.
Please visit www.teamrtsholland.hyves.nl Last season we ended up 4th in German championship, our goal for next year is 1st :-)

Our rebuild 8V engine will be build like this:
Modified head with mild porting, std valves but modified, Cometic head gasket, 12.9 headbolts, 16V injectors, throttle body 16V, looking for better inletcam (??), better turbocharger with exhaust manifold, and probalby programmable ECU sytem. Most of the time we will use gas with octan 100 (if this is available!). Also our gearbox will be modified with other diff and we are looking for someone who can build special gearset for 3rd and 4th gear. Our goal is to achieve ± 280hp to compete with the much stronger Audi and BMW cars.

Now my question, we need a good turbocharger with fast spool up and no lag. This is because we are not the whole time on throttle but very often we have a few seconds throttle full open and a few seconds throttle almost closed (you can see in the video). If I understand your post correctly, the TD4HL-16T-#6 would be the best choice?? I have seen on an internet auction site lots of people selling such turbochargers, but how can I see it is the correct charger with the right housing? And to save money, would it be good to buy second hand charger of better new?

@GC: what valve springs would you recommend? where can I find the info and how to order?
I have also looked for your DVD but cannot find it, is it still for sale?
And does your new book has more information about the turbocharged Integrale engines compared to your "old" book (which I have almost 10 years I think - at least the pages are turning yellow ;-) )

thank you, JC