Tipo 16v Race Car production Modified

Competition engines and ancillaries - general discussion
Rich Ellingham
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Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
Location: Glasgow, UK
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Tipo 16v Race Car production Modified

Post by Rich Ellingham » June 23rd, 2006, 8:37 am

I have been building a 3dr tipo 16 to race in the uK in the euro saloons championship which used to be the autoitalia championship. the tipo was mine a number of years ago, I sold it, but now I have bought it back to rebuild
Here is it before it was stripped 53k miles fulls service history
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underneath was fully de-sealed and seam welded along with pretty much any other join.
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to this now taken after painting
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cage is cds tubing, with triangulation on the front struts, which also have extra plates added on top. there is a dash bar, and sill to tunnel mounts for the seat.
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The engine for the race car is fully blue printed and gas flowed. Still a mild class c spec. Will develop the car once it's done some races. Body has been fully stitch welded with the front struts connected to the cage.

the engine, built by the chap who has done one or two of these.
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paddle helix
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ah look at this pro at work, like my workshop[;)] yes right
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centre console hand folded by my fair hand and a piece of wood, and a mallet
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rear view with corbeau revolution seat, as reccommended by my friend Graham Heels, who won the Alfa championship a few years ago, he reckoned the wrap around head protection saved his life during a tyre wall impact - good enough reason for me. Just got 3inch luke 5 point harness to go with it. The tipo driving position is a bit high but on max height I still cannot see that well over the front, will worry about this later as the car isnt on the flat so it may not be so bad.
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delta evo2 brembos
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new steering rack, notice poly bushes they were easy to fit- yes right.
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at last the trigger wheel is made, meaning I can finally get the engine ready to go in,
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here's the engine a bit more assembled, loom has been soldered. but didn't show it in this pic, what a fun job.
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racetech gauges as rec by GC, dam they cost a lot, but the cheaper boyracer gauges just look and feel ****.
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got rear bushes in on trial fit, made one mistake but I can sort that
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trigger fitted like a glove[:)]
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just a few more bits, starting is virtually the next thing on the list after calibrating the sensors.


Race parts made up a few lines for me, they take a bit of reminding to get the stuff out though, here on the gbox is a line I had to have made as my catch tank fouled the OE Fiat solid line, even though functioanlly it was sound.
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battery box -how exciting, the wiring is actually much tidier and I have tested as the circuits bar the fuel pump and starter. Scared myself when the tacho went backwards, but this is normal - should have read the instructions.
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look at these chav tastic lights a whole 20 quid, as long as they meet the regs Im ok
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cooler and duct, will need to isolate the air filter above it as it will be sucking hot air.

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expensive fuel line and pressure guage,
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the short black pipe has one of my home made bungs
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made from this, my homemade lathe, well necessity is the the mother...
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side and front,- i was bored so mocked it up on the front
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and look at this now race license holder, poncing around the the front room [:I]
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The car has now moved garages back to my lets say humble garage, with some nifty DIY I have a bench and a strong high level wheel rack, I have purchased second hand slicks from one of the renault clio cup teams, also cleaned and stopped the fuel system leaking. I literally just as I type this am about to start something running on my server and as that runs I'm off to omex down the road to get my OMEM 600 ecu - at last only took them 3 weeks to get them in!!!

new suspension 9th march 07
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race
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inside
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Updates on page 2 of this thread....
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Rich
Last edited by Rich Ellingham on April 15th, 2012, 9:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Rich Ellingham
Posts: 118
Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
Location: Glasgow, UK
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Post by Rich Ellingham » June 25th, 2006, 5:04 pm

Well its been an interesting weekend a few up and downs and some stupidity on my part.

Picked up the OMEX OMEM 600 ecu on friday, now thay are nice guy's at omex and always help especially if you go down there but they would do well to be stricter on their suppliers of hardware.

As is aspires I really need a timing light to set up the ecu in line with the trigger wheel despite as accurately fitting it as I could. They said it may run without this perhaps just try it - thanks I will.

So, Saturday I have a few jobs to do prior to pluging the ecu in - the top end of of the engine is dry as a bone so off with the cover and out with the oil can. Cover back on, then plugs out to prime the oil system again.
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Then onto the omex tasks for first start,

1. Get the OMEX to speak to the PC, most lap tops these days dont have serial ports thus you must us a serial to USB converter. Now many places charge stupid money for these USB devices circa 30quid, but I got mine from a site cablesandstuff.(com/co.uk? )(IIRC) for 6 quid. To get it to work you need to know the COM port number the PC assigns get this from My computer(Icon -Right click)>select manage> scroll to COM ports > and right click on the USB serial adaptor. You can give it any port number that is not in used although windows will assign one. Note this in your head as the ECU software need this, while you are managing the COM ports set the baud rate to that needed by the ecu which is 38400. Only 1 USB port on the machine will work, so if you have no luck try all all of them but note the ones which don't work when pulled out will often crash the MAP3000 software. When connecting a new lap top to the ecu you need the original map if your ecu is running the telemetry version of the software, and you have to send this map to the ECU again so the relationship will be established.

2. Open the ECU software MAP3000, and in ECU go to port and then Baud rate and set them as needed to what is on the USB adaptor properties.

3. Turn the ignition on> IN MAP3000 got to ECU then connect and then it will tell you if it connects if it says off line its a comms issue, go back and check the USB settings.

Some tasks are needed to calibrate the sensors, first the throttle pot needs to read some sensible values, the screen gives you a read out for TPS raw and at closed throttle this should read 20 then at WOT equal or less than 255. Values can be adjusted but physically moving the pot.

2. You can use the water and air temp sensors as they are if they read sensible values, but I found that via the calibration tables the scale was not long enough for sensor as it stood. So I had to calibrate the sensors by referencing another thermometer and bringing some water to the boil, as the temperature changes the ecu scale requests a value you just add the value that the other thermometer says.

The air temp sensor reacts much faster then the water.

Incidentally when screwing the air sensor in dont turn it too hard as it shears off real easy as idiot here found out!!

3. With the sensors in and calibrated (fill the water) I checked fuel pressure - check 3bar. (put the plugs in if they are out of course)

The time to start the engine there are 2 values that affect the idle the injector pulse and the tooth offset on the trigger, I had no idea of the tooth offset with out a timing light, so I could only adust the fuel.

4.Turn the battery master on and flick the ignition anfd fuel switches, press start. Mmm nothing - poor old battery was out of juice - introduce a VW tdi for back up power. Try again yes it wanted to catch but the idle was not possible, use a bit of throttle - you can see the inputs on screen.
This time it works sounded very loud and very rough, but it was running!! Man do the revs pick up quickly, oil pressure was up to 80PSI.

This is all the rolling road guys need they will set the spark/timing issues (good luck I think the off side wheel will have to come off to see the pulley).

When I put the car away there was a puddle of oil on the ground. This was the source of much distress as the oil had sprayed over the steering rack. My unacceptable I've craked the block. Such problems are corrected by sending emails to your engine builder who very nicely replies on the weekend asks where from, then finishes up with - what those open ended threads which go straight through to the sump and will leak oil if not plugged- Ah yes I see. I think a more appropriate mail would have been - 'Dear Rich, you amature those threads are not blind, so block them up!! Relief, I'll suffer the embarrasement - Huge thanks to GC.

incidentally the new humble (pokey) home of my car
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Attachments
omexStart.JPG
Omex start and calibration windows
omexStart.JPG (56.22 KiB) Viewed 30995 times
OMEXbaud.JPG
baud rate setting
OMEXbaud.JPG (40.1 KiB) Viewed 30984 times
Last edited by Rich Ellingham on July 18th, 2011, 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Alexis
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Post by Alexis » June 26th, 2006, 8:25 am

When I put the car away there was a puddle of oil on the ground. This was the source of much distress as the oil had sprayed over the steering rack. My unacceptable I've craked the block. Such problems are correct by sending emails to your engine builder who very nicely replies on the weekend asks where from, then finishes up with - what those open ended threads which go straight through to the sump and will leak oil if not plugged- Ah yes I see. I think a more appropriate mail would have been - 'Dear Rich, you amature those threads are not blind, so block them up!! Relief, I'll suffer the embarrasement - Huge thanks to GC.
Should have called me again and asked, could have told you that one :lol: been there and done that when i put the turbo engine into the teapot

Rich Ellingham
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Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
Location: Glasgow, UK
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Post by Rich Ellingham » June 26th, 2006, 4:02 pm

Now on starting the car it was loud unacceptable loud, the poor back box was pathetic at sound deadening and no way will it pass scrutineering for noise levels.

I have just ordered a mild steel box from George Polley motorsport, George explained that they never had a car not pass a noise test with one of these AX 891 boxes fitted. The box is 16inch long with an oval profile 8" by 4", with about 4inch of pipe either end. Pipe ID is 2 1/4 ", which I will need to adapt to my 2inch OD current pipe, i will await the actual box to measure the size differences.

I thought I may write some things on race car wiring, I will supplement with photos later.

MSA rules are first thing that should be considered when competing in the UK. The rules are for circuit racing that I refer to but I would apply the same to hill climb and sprints.

Section J 20.11 Circuit breakers and Ignition Components

20.11.1 be equipped with and externally operated circuit breaker having positive on-off positions clearly marked [Q 8]. An external breaker is not mandatory on open cars of periods A to F but is strongly recommended. An internal ignition switch must be operable by the driver when normally seated irrespective of wether a safety harness is worn or not.

Now reading the above sounds quite simple, but you will see many variations on this rule. The need for an external operation relates purly to a device the can cut the battery positve to all car components. The need for the clear ON-OFF is NOT specific to te external operation mentioned above. This means that somewhere a kill swithc should exist with ON-OFF written on it, and there must be a way to operate this externally AND the driver must be able to do this seated.

So, a solution I used is to install an FIA kill switch on my custom dash, where I can reach it. I used an AUTOLEC FIA kill switch forget the cheap poor from kit car places they always fail, buy the best you can. FIA one have additional breakers to ground the alternator, and cut the ignition coil power supply - This ensures the car does not run on using te alternator as the power supply. Here my T pull is the red swivel switch on the center console - the action is spring loaded so once it is moved towrds off it springs in that direction.

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Connected to this switch you can connect what is commonly known as T-Pull cable basically like a bicycle brake cable with a T shaped handle one and and bare cable the other end. The outer is a spiral bound steel with a steel cable on the inner. This T pull when pulled from the outside will pull the Kill switch lever round - but to do this you must create a cable stop for the outer cable.
T pull's - these were quite difficult to fit - the tipo has no real space as the bonnet comes up close to the windscreen. The T pulls have a large mounting depth owing to the rigid tube about 3 inches worth

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The cable stop was made using a chunk of aluminum and a V-brake tube from a mountain bike - this has the correct size ferrule to terminate the t pull outer and come in different radiuses of bend allowing me to angle the opening to pull the swith to OFF effectively. The cable clamp on the end is another bike shop part, the t pull should have had one of these but didn't. Most motorsport suppliers will sell T pulls but price varies and they're all made by grayston - my advice call George Polley as his prices are very reasonable.
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The switch fouled tho bonnet - some more hack saw application is needed !
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So this arrangement covers the FIA rule for isolation/breaker. The Positive goes to the switch and no where else first. Then on the other swich post I have a supply for the ignition relay switch, the fan in the engine bay, as power supply to the Ignition relay.

My red aero flip switch controls one of the relays at the bottom of the panel, this supplies power to the fuses you can see. I don't think you have to do this but I didn't really want all the current going just through the red switch. The power to the fuse board comes from a home made power distribution, made from a chunk of copper flat. This in hind sight is over kill. I could have supplied the fuse board with one power supply on the end then with small sections daisy chained the power along the top. I did this on the other fuse board I have. Incidentally there is no standard Fiat loom in this car anymore.

I am yet to asses the need of the items on the fuse board to select the correct Ampage for each item.

The Green switch is a seperate control for the fuel pump, this as far as I can see is not a regulation in the MSA, but it makes sense to me to have a fule pump switch that way I can have the igniton on to do ECU things for example and not have the fuel pumping whirring away - also the OMEX wiring giude requires a way the kill the pump, thus in this circuit the switch power feed comes from the power distribution behind the panel, then to the relay, which grounds through the OMEX. The high current side of the relay goes from the power distr - to relay - to fuel pump. I wired the pump with some decent gauge cable.

The 2 lights on the switch panel are not wired to the switch, I made 2 seperate runs to the high current side of the relays this way if the light doesnt come on chances the relay is dead.

(the item marked E is the extinguisher T pull)


To Be Cont'd
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Rich Ellingham
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Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
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Post by Rich Ellingham » July 27th, 2006, 1:31 pm

Ok, just came back from the rolling road minus the car, will go back for it later. Found a couple of wiring problems, firstly a self distructing relay - LMA motorsport supplied this and really their parts are really pretty poor, luckily there is a new auto electrical factors opened near me. Also I forgot the ecu never supplies power to relay signals it only grounds them thus I had wired the fan wrong -simple fix. One of my injectors wasnt plugged in correctly - simply fixed dont know how I missed that.

It was a warm day and even warmer in the test cell, about the harshest conditions the car will see in terms of heat I'd imagine.


I have some rr video that I will uplaod and link to from here. The power seems very linear and I'll scan the graph soon. Power was 166bhp with about 145lb ft of torque.

When I last had it dyno'd as a road car is produce 144Bhp with 142lb ft torque, so it looks like torque is largly unchange in peak value but the drop off is reduced. Driving it out of the cell showed a big difference in throttle response compared with my road going TDI.

It was run in on the dyno at low rpm 3000rpm max for 3 hours using mineral oil. I will switch to selenia racing.
Last edited by Rich Ellingham on March 1st, 2007, 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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unoracer
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Location: Harrogate

Post by unoracer » August 1st, 2006, 11:07 am

Great to see its at the rolling road stage Rich. Will you be out with us in any LMA races for the rest of this season? We could di with a few more italian stallions joining us!!

Yugo_Turbo

Post by Yugo_Turbo » August 1st, 2006, 2:28 pm

One od my favourite project's.
I remember this topic from SportingFiats forum.
I'm admiring you.

Which Injection Ssytem are you using?

Keep up the good work.

Rich Ellingham
Posts: 118
Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
Location: Glasgow, UK
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Post by Rich Ellingham » August 5th, 2006, 8:38 pm

injection is omex 600, similar to the 710 but without on board data logging. Injectors are integrale evolution 1 single pintle. Presure is at 3bar manifold referenced.

Chris - I hope so mate, really do. Will aim to go testing at mallory park first.

rich
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unoracer
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Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 9:45 pm
Location: Harrogate

Post by unoracer » August 10th, 2006, 7:29 pm

Rich- Let me know when you are testing at Mallory if you like. My uno engine rebuild is nearing completion, and will be testing at Mallory myself, although first 20-30 laps will be strictly running in laps! ;) I aim to be out at Brands Hatch on 2nd Sept.

Rich Ellingham
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Location: Glasgow, UK
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Post by Rich Ellingham » August 10th, 2006, 8:32 pm

Hi chris, yes will do, Brands is such a long way for me, but it may realistically be the only choice I have. Not sure yet, work are pilling the pressure on at the moment when I'd much rather be in motosport activities. I may go testing on the current tyres, not too worried about all out speed its things rattling falling off etc. The RR went fine, except for the dead relay, not sure why it died, will have an investigation and get a decent one.

I haven't sealed my windows in but will have to as the rain worries me.

Rich
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Rich Ellingham
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Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
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Post by Rich Ellingham » September 5th, 2006, 10:49 am

A lesson in not cutting corners

Running the engine the other day it sounded like a bag of spanners, very rough - could the bottom end had gone? No surely not if so it would have died on the dyno for sure. Oil pressure was good. What could this noise be?

What I learn't is that things attached to the block really can make a lot of noise - for example the gearbox coming lose. Now I do not expect this, but low and behold it had - ok it wasn't falling off but certainly enough to cause the sound. Equiped with some new loctite 248, the torque wrench and the workshop manual I've set about putting this right. Also refitted the alerternator as is was squeaking. Sounds absolutely fine now, but in the future I'll be keeping an eye on this items.

Incidently if anyone knows where I can buy Presto/dormer taps which can be delivered soon I'd be most greatful as I'm having great difficulty with this,
M8 x 1.25
M10 x 1.0
M12 x 1.0
M12 x 1.25

Rich
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Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » September 5th, 2006, 11:46 am

MGB supplies, engineers' merchants

100 yds from me, owner Maurice Bull, very good firm indeed.

tel 01522 694 141

GC

Rich Ellingham
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Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
Location: Glasgow, UK
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Post by Rich Ellingham » September 15th, 2006, 8:10 pm

Right got my taps - dormer taps aren't cheap are they, and now made in sweden, used to come from sheffield?!

Anyway the time has come:

Saturday 23rd September Oulton park

Hope you dont mind the stickers GC,

Had it pre-scrutineered - just as well, there's no FIA approval on my Luke harness. Apart from that the chap was very pleased with the standard of preparation - which is a boost. I was concerned about the sound level of the exhuast, test will be at 2/3rd's max rpm about 5000 rpm, after warming it an impromptue test was carried out, I think its quieter a test rpm then at idle - I'll have to ease it off the test rpm as the rasp kicks the db meter up. No problems expected.

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Rich Ellingham
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Post by Rich Ellingham » September 24th, 2006, 8:23 pm

I went I raced, I came home. Tipo is in one bit I had no, problems it performed well, blew a rad fan fuse, change this to a trip switch next time, as we were waiting on the grid for 20minutes to restart the race. Not sure the oil cooler is working that effectively, I'll monitor the temps closer at Silverstone. Sorry about the pics, my bro couldn't work the camera.

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regards

Rich
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Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » September 25th, 2006, 9:28 am

Hello Rich!

Did you get a finish and did you enjoy yourself?

GC

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