My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

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NickRP
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Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by NickRP » May 7th, 2008, 11:17 am

ICI wrote:Hi NIkola, would you tell me is it possible to do logging with the stock Fiat Coupe ECU and how?
Yes, of course, OEM Coupe ECU can give out the datastream. You have a PM.
ICI wrote:In my case the problem is very unpleasant, because I use ceramic clutch with 30% uprated pressure plate 228mm push type.You can see it on the pictures above.I hope this is due to still incomplete bed in.
Now, that's strange. Keep me updated on how things are evolving with time.

Best regards,
Nikola
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by Guy Croft » May 7th, 2008, 3:51 pm

Ceramic clutches don't need bedding-in.

If it's slipping the torque rating of the clutch is inadequate.
You can work it out, by bolting it together and putting a spline drive thru the friction plate and measuring the 'break torque' with a torque wrench.

GC

ICI
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Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by ICI » May 7th, 2008, 9:20 pm

Hi Guy

I will have possibility to check the clutch with this method may be at the end of the year, because the project will be frozen till then.
Is there some danger for the clutch material or ceramic pads caused by overheating when slipping ?

Regards
Iliyan
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ICI
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » February 17th, 2009, 5:22 pm

Hi to everybody, the title of the project was changed to Fiat Tipo HF Integrale :)
With a help of friends I bought everything I need for this conversion from one Lancia Dedra HF Integrale.
Here are the unfinished yet story in few pictures.
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the old slipping clutch, now the ceramycs are new and the pressure plate now is pull type OEM Valeo for Dedra Integrale
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the flywheel is renewed with new replaceble friction face now
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the central diff had wearing problems
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and I made it with bronze shims
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I did laser cut reinforcement inox plate to prevent cracking of the case
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plate on place and epoxy glued allso, exept the 17 connecting pins 3mm dia
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on the car
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the sump in original state
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and with windtray
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the transfer box including front dif and central visco coupling
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Uros Piperski
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by Uros Piperski » February 17th, 2009, 10:05 pm

Great job ICI!
Maybe you could find a Delta integrale rear diff? It's a torsen type, not the plain open diff with a pneumatic locker like the Dedra one.

ICI
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » February 17th, 2009, 11:56 pm

Thank you Uros,
it is very rare to find torsen diff here and very expencive too , but I will drive this one fully locked on go kart kind of tracks.
This is the way to drive it sideways.
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ICI
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » March 10th, 2009, 11:23 pm

here is the first real test drive :)
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/AVSEQ01_640422.htm
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Honza
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by Honza » March 11th, 2009, 5:28 pm

isn´t better to cut out the space for spare wheel and cover the hole with 0.8mm Aluminium sheet? ... the creasy plate isn´t look well
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ICI
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » March 11th, 2009, 6:50 pm

this will be the next task, I will place custom fuel tank under the boot .
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ICI
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » April 16th, 2009, 10:17 pm

After few thousand km this happened ...
Some hard driving, the oil (Mobil 1 10W60) temperature rised up to 140 deg C and rattle noise appeared.
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by Guy Croft » April 17th, 2009, 7:40 am

I looked thru your prep photos and I think you carried out a careful crank prep regime (oilway mods and unplug/clean). Rapid rise in oil temperature can be caused by faulty oil thermostat (I have seen the valve in some types get stuck) or by bearing damage. The catastrophic failure of the bearings looks to me as if you might have over-fuelling and chronic oil contamination. This massively degrades the oil (breaks it down destroying it's viscosity) and rapid bearing failure follows.

Naturally other things can cause gasoline to get into the sump - eg: detonation and fractured ring lands.

I would just point out that if the oilway mods are not most carefully polished (to the 'nth degree as we say) the sharp edges slice thru the oil film (literally) and also - rip the bearings to pieces. In more or less the mileage you have stated.


GC

ICI
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » April 17th, 2009, 2:08 pm

Hi Guy,
I am glad to see your comments on this.
Week before, there was a sudden oil lost from pop off oil house.Almost all of the oil was lost and drove some hundred meters before stop.
May be this start the damage.
The oil temperature was so high because of the very low average speed about 50km/h and the very big engine load.
But the oil pressure was nice high, at idle around 2 bar, and at 4000RPM above 5 bar.
Even when the failure happened, at idle it was 0.5 bar.
The fueling on boost is in 11AFR to 11.7AFR , but it is true that on cruising on some spots was way too high around 12's AFR.I have to correct this.
Here is a video at 1:10 min when this happends http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Plev ... 646625.htm

This is a close up pictures of all the bearings, there are very glossy strips on them but I am wondering is there a chance of stretching second big end conrod and thus caused the problem?
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as new
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central bearing 1000km before the failure
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blueish 2nd con rod cap
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the middle
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by Guy Croft » April 17th, 2009, 3:30 pm

Looks maybe like sharp edge damage to the bearings from your oilway mods to the big-end journals could be the culprit, sorry to say. In saying that I might be wrong and I don't want to criticise your workmanship form my desk..

The 'acid test' of your work (and mine) is to rub a new bearing over the oilways after finishing the prep and full clean. There should be no witness of any kind. Or - build up the crank assy into the block, turn it over and then strip off the rod and main caps and check the brgs. If there is the least indication of scoring - not slight polishing or rubbing - the thing has to come apart.


G
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ICI
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » April 17th, 2009, 10:26 pm

Guy Croft wrote:Looks maybe like sharp edge damage to the bearings from your oilway mods to the big-end journals could be the culprit, sorry to say. In saying that I might be wrong and I don't want to criticise your workmanship form my desk..
G
Hi Guy
Well, this now sounds pretty reasonable when compare with the tracks left on the 3rd conrod big end bearings.
May be destruction of the 2nd big end bearing started the same way?
Now I am thinking may be I made the opening area with way too big diameter and the force pressed the bearing shell in this "valley" and start cutting it ?
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by Guy Croft » April 20th, 2009, 8:06 am

I doubt you made it too big, the OE chamfer can be pretty big anyway..

You need to blend the sharp edges with 400/500 grade carborundun paper and oil and then go over it again with fine Scotchbrite by hand.

Polishing the crank must follow. This can be done with fine Scotchbrite and oil or with a band of 500 grade carborundun (I recommend Norton Abrasives) in a lathe. The crank must be turned in direction of rotation as the latter method is carried out, in order that the grain is not 'raised' against the bearing.

Naturally the most diligent clean with soft nylon brush, hot water and detergent must follow (preferably one with a corrosion inhibitor to prevent rusting - otherwise you have to dry it very, very quickly and get WD40 on it immediately). The it has to be blown out with brake cleaner and airline.

GC

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