My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

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ICI
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Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
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My Fiat Tipo HF Integrale

Post by ICI » June 7th, 2007, 10:30 pm

Hi to everyone.
I am so glad to introduce my project. Finally I did it.
This is actually Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole turbo conversion.
It runs with Fiat Coupe 16VT ECU and chip by Ruben Aparici.
The expected power is 320 hp and max. boost 1,55 bar

Here is a little movie:
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7abd ... 23905a.htm
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The cams setting, according to this tread http://guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=634
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setting of TDC
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The head is ported slightly by my self, just to remove the imperfections from the casting.
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Modified oil pick up holes.
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My design cam wheels.The yellow part is aluminum, the gear part is made from original one.
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The pistons ready for build in together with con rods, lightened, shotpeened and balanced to 0,1 gram.
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piston tuned.jpg
And the Solid model. We took from it the drawing for machining.
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Picture 001.jpg
The pistons arrived without valve reliefs and also with smaller dish volume.I decided to machine them with maximum deep valve cuts and compression ratio 8:1. Together with Friend of mine we did a Solid Works model of the piston with desirable dish+valve c
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The engine block is re bored to 84,5 mm because of the forged Iasa pistons.
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3" air pipes
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K&N filter
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3" downpipe
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Garrett GT2860RS with T3 flange and external wastegate Turbosmart 38 mm. Cooler dimensions are 600 x 300 x 70 mm
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Bosch - Ford Motorsport 420 cc / 3 bar , actually they are up to 490 cc
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Cometic MLS gasket 1,9 mm. Actually it is 2,2 mm compressed, becorse of the reliefs
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the sump http://guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=842
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Adventure cars - Italy clutch
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the flywheel not yet painted http://guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=607
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Last edited by ICI on February 17th, 2009, 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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SteveNZ

Post by SteveNZ » June 7th, 2007, 10:53 pm

Nice work, Any pictures of the car?

ICI
Posts: 55
Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
Contact:

Post by ICI » June 7th, 2007, 11:02 pm

SteveNZ wrote:Nice work, Any pictures of the car?
Yes, I add a little movie of the beginning of the post - the link.
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ICI
Posts: 55
Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
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Post by ICI » June 10th, 2007, 9:39 pm

...
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beautiful finish of the track day
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Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » June 11th, 2007, 8:12 am

Iliyan, hi

great project, nicely presented too - well done indeed!

GC

SteveNZ

Post by SteveNZ » June 11th, 2007, 11:47 am

Hi

How have you mounted the wastegate? Is it welded straight onto the original wastegate hole?

ICI
Posts: 55
Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
Contact:

Post by ICI » June 11th, 2007, 10:47 pm

Thank You for the nice words, gents.

The wastegate is welded to the turbo exhaust flange via short S pipe, just to suit the place.
Here is detailed pictures of the flanges and the hole in the turbo housing.
For the future time I will go for tubular exhaust collector and the wastegate pipe will come out directly from it, just right before it's T3 flange.

Regards
Iliyan
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bob
Posts: 3
Joined: June 22nd, 2006, 3:44 pm
Location: Vit’‚³ria - Brasil

Post by bob » July 3rd, 2007, 7:15 pm

Hi CIC , I need you help , I want to put a turbo at my sedici too , I like to know what exactly parts have you used in your project !

If you remenber the web sites it‚´s going to be great!

thanks
BoB - Brasil !

Image
Image

ICI
Posts: 55
Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
Contact:

Post by ICI » July 25th, 2007, 4:50 pm

Hi bob, everything I used in my car is showed in the pictures, nothing hidden there.
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ICI
Posts: 55
Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
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Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by ICI » May 5th, 2008, 11:26 pm

Little update :)
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Tubular manifold made by me. SS 304L 38mm ID equal lenght, about 600mm lenght of each runner. It is stick welded, not TIG unfortunately, but looks fine after few hundreds km
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wraped with ceramic fabrik
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ECU emulator for maping
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ICI
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Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
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Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by ICI » May 5th, 2008, 11:48 pm

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NickRP
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Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by NickRP » May 6th, 2008, 9:19 am

ICI,

Excellent project, I do like it a lot.

How satisfied are you with the spool-up time? I expect it to be fine with GT2860RS. I assume you are not using antilag?

Do you still use Pierburg valve for regulating boost? Did you have to change integral boost valve duty cycle correction terms in the map to suit quicker response times of GT2860RS in comparison to OEM turbocharger? If not, are you experiencing boost overshots?

A friend of mine and I did a similar conversion a couple of years ago. However, we used T3 in Super 60 trim, which generated boost quite high in the RPM range. This was partly sorted out by exhaust cam timing and antilag. We used stock Tipo 2.0 16v 5 door cams, but later resorted to Thema turbo exhaust cam, which helped quite a bit.

Which cams do you use and how are they timed (degrees between peak lift and TDC)?

If possible, I would highly appreciate if you could post a log of your measured boost level vs. RPM in 4th or 5th gear.

Keep up the good work,
Nikola

ICI
Posts: 55
Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
Contact:

Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by ICI » May 6th, 2008, 12:41 pm

Hi Nikola

I know yours turbo Tipo project long time ago, still when it was presented in http://www.hollosites. It was kind of a guiding line for me :)If you mentioned the red one Cosworth in the video - it is running with your RP lab ECU at 1bar at this moment, waiting mapping for 2bar.

Now on the questions.
The car is amazingly responsive with this turbo.
No antilag system, over 3000rpm every blip on the throttle make difference.
Yes, it is with standard Pierburg boost solenoid valve, but is using external wastegate with 0,8bar spring.
About duty cycle, I can't see is there is any difference with the stock bin, because I did't have proper .xdf with this table for TunerPro.The boost spikes not more than 1,2 bar.
But there is a problem with clutch slipping on 4th and 5th gear, which reflects on the boost rise.

Here is all about my cams and timing :
http://guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=634

I will post logs, if I could make them these days.
I am confused a bit because I bought Innovate RPM converter to collect 5 sensor signals for logging, but it seems probably it can work only connected with Innovate LM-1, which transfers data to laptop.I was told that RPM converter can be connected via serial stereo cable with my Innovate LC-1 wide band, and from there to laptop for logging.I have to try this.
At this moment I am watching only AFR.

Regards
Iliyan
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NickRP
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Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by NickRP » May 6th, 2008, 3:08 pm

Hello Iliyan,

Thanks for the link on cams timing, sorry that I missed it initially.

Unfortunately, I haven't had any experiences with Innovate products, so I can't really assist you on how to make use of the RPM converter with LC-1. I do the logging in "traditional way", through the ECU connected to laptop.

As for clutch slip problem that you mentioned, we had the same with Tipo 16v OEM 215mm clutch. It proved more cost effective to go for OEM 230mm item (including Dedra Turbo cable actuated gearbox) than uprated 215mm clutch. This solved the slipping issue completely.

Does your modified chip have duty cycle table on the same location as OEM? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought there was a freeware XDF for OEM coupe 16vt chip? It was of moderate quality, but at least such basic things like boost duty cycle table were interpreted correctly. I was actually asking about duty cycle integral correction tables, as those are a bit tricky to adjust (many tuners don't have idea that they exist, nevertheless they are playing a key role in reaching boost setpoint quickly and avoiding overshots).

Please send my regards to Martin!

Ciao,
Nikola
P.S. Watch out for cracks that may develop on the exhaust header.

ICI
Posts: 55
Joined: August 30th, 2006, 9:02 pm
Location: Rousse, Bulgaria
Contact:

Re: My Turbo Tipo

Post by ICI » May 6th, 2008, 8:27 pm

NickRP wrote: I do the logging in "traditional way", through the ECU connected to laptop.
Hi NIkola, would you tell me is it possible to do logging with the stock Fiat Coupe ECU and how ?
NickRP wrote:As for clutch slip problem that you mentioned, we had the same with Tipo 16v OEM 215mm clutch. It proved more cost effective to go for OEM 230mm item (including Dedra Turbo cable actuated gearbox) than uprated 215mm clutch. This solved the slipping issue completely.
In my case the problem is very unpleasant, because I use ceramic clutch with 30% uprated pressure plate 228mm push type.You can see it on the pictures above.
I hope this is due to still incomplete bed in.
NickRP wrote:Does your modified chip have duty cycle table on the same location as OEM? Maybe I am wrong, but I thought there was a freeware XDF for OEM coupe 16vt chip? It was of moderate quality, but at least such basic things like boost duty cycle table were interpreted correctly. I was actually asking about duty cycle integral correction tables, as those are a bit tricky to adjust (many tuners don't have idea that they exist, nevertheless they are playing a key role in reaching boost setpoint quickly and avoiding overshots).
Yes, you are right.There is newer version of .xdf, which I did't use before.
This is what it shows.
I also add the boost level table to see.

Ciao,
Iliyan
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