1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

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vandor
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by vandor » March 6th, 2013, 3:58 am

Hi Lynn,

Nice to see you here!
I was looking at your gear ratios and they look pretty high for a street car! Won't it be difficult to get going from a standing start with such high first gear and final drive?

I also noticed that in your chart the 7000-8000 rpm range is shaded in red. What is going to be your redline? Guy can correct me if I am wrong, but with your pistons and rods you should be able to go over 7000 rpm.

Csaba
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 8th, 2013, 12:35 am

Hi Csaba. I believe that could be an issue. Tradeoff on close ratio vs cruising RPM. I may go with the stock scorp ring/pinion (I believe 3.929). I don't intend to drive in the city outher than getting to anf from a highway to get to the fun roads. But there will be unavoidable times when that high first gear would be an issue. Still mulling it over.

On another matter, the valves lapped in nicely, which I am very happy about as it confirms the grind as concentric to the new guides. Now has Guy's triple springs. Had to go with the old collets as the new ones seemed to small a diameter to fit. Old collets should be okay, right?


Thanks, Lynn
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 15th, 2013, 11:18 pm

Happy to have gathered all parts going into plating or powder coating, repairing some (for example, reinforcing A-arms and fixing split/reinforcing motor mount plate), and getting them into a reputable plater and a reputable powder coater here in the Bay Area. Yellow zinc chromate and 85% gloss Jungle Grey. I threw some parts in that I have doubles or replacements for, thinking with batch pricing I might as well. Photos of parts attached, and I instructed the plater to remove a few critical pieces per Guy's book section regarding potential embrittlement issues (crank case nut and tensioner fasteners, for example). Fasteners throughout the car will be largely new, in any event. I'll be glad to pick these parts up in a few weeks!

Working on the pedal box to fit the 037/S2 kit now...
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 17th, 2013, 5:50 pm

Pedal box received The Montehospital 037 kit treatment with three-outlet MC. Now need to address the additional inch between spring hooks. Still toying with a Tilton or Wilwood pedal/MC set. This is the time now that the car is stripped.
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After taking out material to make room for plunger mechanism, tab reinforcer is added to pedal stop/switch bracket
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 20th, 2013, 11:10 pm

Everything organized and solid plan agreed with the shop who will be doing fabrication and body/interior work. We are very much on the same page with the vision. One thing I'm please about is that although a new firewall is in order, therein lies an opportunity to raise the package shelf to just below the window level, thereby providing even more engine bay room. And we are good with the large sealable access panel concept (with 2" of protrusion into the passenger side to allow the DCOE/aibox plenty of room). Plus, let's just run the roll bar down through the horizontal plane of the bulkhead to the frame rails. Make an "A" with one about vertical and one slightly rearwards. Then brace that with forward bars down to the door sill at about the seat fronts, and maybe one in the middle to the front under the dash. I believe that will work nicely. The shop I'm using has a lot of race prep experience and is confident regarding the plan.

But how to get the car which is trapped in my little box of a garage on jack stands onto a dolly to roll out for the customizer's truck? My floor jack wont lift high enough by a long shot. Engine hoist! Should have done this when I started three months ago. Ready to roll...

For those of you with real garages this will not seem like much, but these little triumphs are great for those of us who are more constrained.

Pistons on their way from Guy/Csaba and will be taking to bore and deck.

Lynn
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Guy Croft
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by Guy Croft » March 21st, 2013, 5:45 pm

LIKE

GC
Guy Croft, owner

vandor
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by vandor » March 23rd, 2013, 3:30 am

Nice work on the pedal box!
Please post pics of the car as the fabrication progresses!
bye,

Csaba
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 23rd, 2013, 6:23 pm

Thanks Csaba,

I decided to go with a Tilton bulkhead assembly and Series 77 MCs. Since the car is going for much fabrication work anyway, this will be one more performance component. I may have to go 15" wheels to get the calipers I need, but would much rather stay 14". Any ideas other than the WHOA Wilwood front kit?

As an aside, since I can't powder coat ball joint components without tearing them apart and reassembling, I just went with a 2-part epoxy caliper coating and it came out great. Was easy and seems a super hard coating. Would have liked to match the color I'm going with for powder coating the other parts (dark grey), but not so easy. Hence black. Coated the rear calipers in case I stay with 14" and the black anodized Wilwood Powerlite fronts.
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 24th, 2013, 7:13 pm

Yesterday I was reviving my ignition system plan while waiting for other components to arrive that will enable the motor build to commence. I had purchased a Luminition system back in 2007 but discovered it won't work at all with the Beta cam-driven distributor that came with the Vx conversion kit. Duh. I could maybe go with the well-worn Beta-Vx unit on my VX exhaust cam end, but I'm leaning away from that as I'd rather use the new luminition system. I'd rather drive the Scorpion distributor off the new Kent Stage IIA's gear by using the takeoff cam tower (since the Vx intake tower has no allowance for a distributor), thereby allowing use of that Luminition system. Questions arose in looking at all this:

1. Are there any fundamental pros and cons to cam-end vs gear-driven, all things equal with component condition?
2. If no advantages to one or the other setup, am is my assumption that a new Luminition constant energy system applied to the Scorp distributor (that's in excellent shape, btw) is better than a pretty worn Beta-Vx distributor/coil/ignition module valid? Is there some magic to the Beta-Vx assembly?
2. Am I correct that slotted cams for an end drive protrude too much to just close off with the plate? (This is just a curiosity as I can use either the Vx intake or exhaust as my exhaust as they are both in very good shape.)
3. On my takeoff Scorp head/cam tower assembly, what is the intake cam protrusion all about? Drive the air pump or something?

Thanks
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Takeoff head/camtower assembly (Vx components go in place of this)
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Guy Croft
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by Guy Croft » March 25th, 2013, 11:28 am

Hi Lynn

sorry missed the earlier question about collets - yes re-use.

Re:

1. Are there any fundamental pros and cons to cam-end vs gear-driven, all things equal with component condition?
2. If no advantages to one or the other setup, am is my assumption that a new Luminition constant energy system applied to the Scorp distributor (that's in excellent shape, btw) is better than a pretty worn Beta-Vx distributor/coil/ignition module valid? Is there some magic to the Beta-Vx assembly?
2. Am I correct that slotted cams for an end drive protrude too much to just close off with the plate? (This is just a curiosity as I can use either the Vx intake or exhaust as my exhaust as they are both in very good shape.)
3. On my takeoff Scorp head/cam tower assembly, what is the intake cam protrusion all about? Drive the air pump or something?


Your simplest best bet is maybe send the old peg-drive VX ex-driven distr with its mounting bracket to me and I will have H&H convert it to a more modern setup - similar to the 130TC (inlet driven) like the one shown attached. The distr will have a neat (and small) external amp module and conventional electronic coil.

Use the OE low lift VX ex cam as the ex cam.

G
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 27th, 2013, 4:01 pm

Thanks Guy. Please tell a newby what the line going to the cam tower cover is? I am studying and learning about various ignition setups but still foggy. It's one thing to absorb mechanical specs and methods. More difficult electronics... Thanks
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TomLouwrier
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by TomLouwrier » March 27th, 2013, 5:06 pm

That connector is not really going into to the cam box, it's just resting there. The connector should go into the amp box.
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Like that.

regards
Tom
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » March 27th, 2013, 7:41 pm

Stupid question, gracious answer. For the life of me I could not see why... but it looked attached! Thank you.
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » April 17th, 2013, 10:44 pm

Well, the car left for Tacoma Washington on Saturday. Spent several hours with Daron Walker of Vintage Customs on an inventory of the things that had to go with him, conveying drawings and plans, and generally getting on the same page with everything needing fabrication and such. Guy approved my mentioning them. They focus on Alfas but have been doing an excellent job on my Flaminia Sport and one of the younger guys is dying to do more custom fabrication as opposed to the strict restoration work often done in their shop. So all the after-market component mountings, the stripped interior, integrating the double-bubble, integrating the Monte valences and new grills/rear louvers, half cage, etc. should be good for him. Nice to have some space to move in the garage again.

Other areas progressed include things related to powder coated or plated parts that I picked up recently, receipt of the crank case all bored and decked, etc. Block is now flex honed, bores detergent-washed and squeaky clean, epoxy painted, and any exposed surfaces coated with Goodson First Lube-10. I had stoned all mounting surfaces before and used liquid masking film to mask any mating surfaces. Hoping the two-part epoxy engine paint holds up well. Now to bag it and wait for the straight crank that Guy sourced and is prepping.
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Liquid Mask to mask mating surfaces - Two-part epoxy engine coating
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Two-Row radiator fits perfectly
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Tilton through-bulkhead pedal box/MCs
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Attaches to new TMH shift mechanism
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » May 3rd, 2013, 3:47 am

Vintage Customs has begun their magic. The firewall will be new with the shelf being raised to make more engine bay room, and an access panel crafted. Rear part of half-roll cage will tie verticals into frame rails about where yellow rattle can marks are. The horizontal rear shelf above the exhaust/silencer was shot and is now new and merging into good steel. Wish I possessed these shop capabilities!
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Stripped of trim and glass
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Angle iron frame welded around perimeter of firewall
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Firewall frame
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Firewall frame; Yellow represents two vertical bars for cage running down to tie into frame rails
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Mock up shelf portion of firewall
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Firewall shelf
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Shelf - Look at all that extra room.
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Rear shelf over exhaust
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Rear shelf
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Rear shelf
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