1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

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lsmull
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1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » February 21st, 2013, 6:16 pm

Greetings. I am new to the forum and looking forward to participating with my 77 Lancia Scorpion project. I’m grateful to Guy for helping me in a myriad of ways over the last couple of months including emails, phone consultations, this forum, and his two outstanding reference manuals (the first dog-eared, finger printed, smudged, and full of notes to self and reference data, and the second still for clean-hands reading only). Guy has advised me privately over the last couple of months on motor matters, but I thought it time to attempt to give something back by actually participating on the forum. I’ll describe a bit below, post a few photos now, and try to keep the thread reasonably current over time. Given the purposes of the forum, postings may splinter off occasionally with a specific topic, but it seemed reasonable to have one central thread for the project overall in Readers Cars.

I am new to Lampredi twin cams. In fact, I’m pretty new to car work in general. But I was a motorcycle roadracer for over a decade and did some motor work and all other bike preparation. Age and sense took over in 2006 and I stopped racing. Needing a new passion I turned to Italian cars. I also have a 1960 Lancia Flaminia Sport Zagato in full ground-up restoration in Seattle, but I claim no value added there other than sourcing some hard-to-find parts. While that car will be rare and interesting, the Scorpion is my baby and much more fun. I’ve planned this project for some time, having purchased the car in 2007 and begun procuring various parts back then, including a complete Volumex setup from Stan Ramirez in the US. And now in 2013 I’ve finally begun actual work. I lifted the motor and have now stripped it and am ploddingly working through Ops per Guy’s references, assembling parts, and having a ball.

The car is targeted fast road with track days sprinkled in. Runs around California byways. Coastal highways. Sears Point and Thunderhill. It will look like a Montecarlo with euro valances and such (thinking “Laguna Seca Blue”). I bought it in a converted state to 2.0L with a Fiat bloc. It ran but the interior was stripped so I only drove it once in ‘07 by plopping my mechanics seat onto rags to keep from rolling around as much. Still, what a blast! Like a street-legal go cart.

The 2.0L crankcase is good and will be bored to 85mm and 0.005” decked in Berkeley, California at Hasselgren Racing when Guy’s CP LC pistons arrive here. Pairing with Pauter rods. My crank is 0.003+” bent so I’m going whole hog in asking Guy to supply a keyholed crank/steel flywheel/Helix clutch balanced assembly. I’ll stay with the Vx exhaust cam and go with Guy’s Stage IIA intake. Guy is also currently rebuilding the Vx blower unit and working with Eric Weston on an adapter setup to tilt the blower down from the Vx intake manifold to fit under the Scorpion package shelf. (I believe Tom McGaffigan is the pioneer on that, and we do it again.) I have a new 45 DCOE and a nice aftermarket fiberglass airbox made for a Mazda rotary IDF that I will make fit and duct fresh air from the center tunnel with an in-line Spectre filter, per Guy’s strong advice that I avoid drawing hot engine bay air made all the warmer here in California. I’m relocating the fuel tank and spare tire to the front boot, using a 15 gallon fuel cell and a Honda Insight mini-spare that fits nicely. The spare is 4x100 and I’ll have someone machine it to 4x98 and bore the hubcentric opening to 57mm, but otherwise it’s pretty sweet and will serve well as a spare tire. There’s the chance a passenger might have to give way to the flat tire while I go get help! Anyway, there will then be room in the bay for an oil cooler, remote oil filter, accumulator, and ducting from the air tunnel to the DCOE and the cooler. Don’t ask about California SMOG, as I have not solved that yet. But the smog stuff is gone. This is not a daily driver and I expect maybe 3000 miles per annum so I don’t feel too guilty. I will start in on cleaning out the engine bay and ripping out unnecessary brackets and readying the surfaces as best as I can for outside help in blasting, fabricating mounting tabs, and coating. A fairly large sealable access panel will be cut into the rear firewall to get at the DCOE and such. It’s looking like I may have to develop the panel with some passenger intrusion to clear the airbox, as I’m coming up an inch or so short. I’ve sourced all exhaust components except tubing for a nice 304 stainless 1-5/8” to 2-1/2” header (4-1) that Hasselgren will fabricate (thanks to Anthony 037_beta for advice and parts references). A close-ratio Bacci Romano gear set and 3.12 final drive are on the way. I will seek help in working out new pulleys and an alternator bracket later…

Note on work. I wish I possessed a shop. I have great respect for fabricators, machinists, builders, etc. St Francis of Assisi said something to the effect of: “He who works with his hands is a laborer. He who works with his hands and his mind is a craftsman. He who works with his hands and his mind and his heart is an artist.” I do possess air, a press, a reasonable selection of specialty tools and power tools, precision measurement instruments, and parts cleaning ability. But machining, welding, media blasting, coatings, and fabrication are usually beyond my capabilities. So I just make a go with what I have and get help where necessary.

I have just commenced stripping down the suspension, steering, brakes, plumbing, etc. Some reusable parts will be blasted and coated and join a whole mess of new fasteners, bearings, bushings, seals, tie rod ends, etc to make the suspension and stopping good. That includes the Montehospital stiffened rear cross member, a Whoa brake kit, Leda/Eibach coil over struts, some new wheels from Image, and Dunlop Direzza Z1*'s. Cooling will be stainless water tubes/silicone hoses/in-head stat setup (all sourced from TMH) and an aluminum radiator in fabrication at Wizard Cooling in New York right now. Heater/AC are both goners. No need for either here. Braided fuel and oil lines. Given my limitations, once I redo the underneath and reassemble and re-plumb, I’ll be sending the car out for bodywork/painting (likely need floor pan work and maybe sills), bracket fabrication to locate various new components, strut tower cross-bracing, a simplified wiring harness, and a stripped down “race-oriented” interior. The original interior will be scrapped and a metal dash and panels will replace the 70s stuff. The intrusive center consol will be nixed to allow room to work the pedals. It gets Sparco seats (they fit!), 6-point Sparco harnesses, a half cage, a 5lb FE-36 automatic extinguisher, and a full complement of the normal gauges plus oil temp, fuel pressure, accumulator pressure (inside cockpit as well as the one on the unit), and boost.

Why go so far on a car that starts off as not too valuable, is not at all a restoration given the behind the scenes butchering, and is not for competition? No rational answer. I have no delusions about the financials involved. No hope of recoupment of costs, no need to treat as an investment, and just want something to which I make a substantial contribution rather than buying a toy already made. Part of the fun...

Lynn
Attachments
As Purchased.jpg
In 2007
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Fiat Crankcase
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Main #1; Others normal wear
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Main #1
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Thrust Bearing Bad but freeplay in specs.jpg
Wonder how? Freeplay was spot on.
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Crank 0.003 in out - scrap.jpg
Good otherwise. Storage not scrap?
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Deburred Deedged and Chamfered.jpg
Nice to not be cut or scraped in there.
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Intake ported.jpg
My attempt to port, smooth, clean up.
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I will replace springs with GCRE triples. Otherwise Vx head is nicely ported with new guides and seals, 3-angle properly done and lapped (sodium exhaust valves).
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Mazda Airbox - Silicone Putty will add shring wrap tube.jpg
Fitting the blower, adapters, DCOE, and this box is a challenge.
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Stoned Front.jpg
Several hours of stoning (using flexhone oil)
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Stripping Bay - Removing many brackets not needed.jpg
Moving gas tank and spare tire to front boot makes much-needed room for oil cooler, accumulator, etc.
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Ratios.jpg
Bacci Romano Close Ratio and 3.12 FD
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GCRE Stage IIA Cam and pulleys.
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DSCN0196.jpg
Hi Torque, 95amp, Pauter E-4340 chrome-moly forged Rods wEDM pressure-fed pin oiling, new oil/water pumps.
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Steve H
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by Steve H » February 21st, 2013, 7:46 pm

Hi,
Any one with Monte Carlo/ Scorpion will tell you that we all put more money into the cars than they are or will ever be worth, it's not the putting in its what you get out of it.

Good luck, I look forward to the following instalments.

Steve H
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Guy Croft
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by Guy Croft » February 21st, 2013, 7:49 pm

MODEL POST!

Nice work Lynn, especially for a new member,

G
Guy Croft, owner

Will01
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by Will01 » February 21st, 2013, 7:52 pm

This looks like a project that I will definetely be interested in following. This is the route I am now trying to take my own project. All the best for the project ahead, i am already looking forward to your next posts.z
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » February 21st, 2013, 9:42 pm

Did not take long to run into a problem with the left rear knuckle assembly. First off, the wheel bearing was in so tightly that I had to press out the hub with the bearing together. I could do that because some prior mechanic did not even bother using a ring nut at all. Whoever did this also butchered the knuckle in that area. I may just grind out the offending mangled thread area with a burr as the threads are good down near the bearing and the damaged ones are only a small portion. What's worse, though, is that in trying to remove the very notchy old bearing from the hub, it popped leaving the inner race still on the hub. Whoops. This will require outside help to solve...
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What the...
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Oh oh
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I guess with the retaining ring the hub would have pressed out of the beariung and then I could have pressed the bearing out with a properly sized driver.
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New SKFs are waiting
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nickp
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by nickp » February 22nd, 2013, 7:05 am

Great looking project, and an excellent vintage and colour of Lancia!!

Same as mine-

Image

BTW - If you get that bearing race heated cherry red with oxy/act it should drop off the hub.

TomLouwrier
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by TomLouwrier » February 22nd, 2013, 9:45 am

Hi Lynn,

Welcome! Nice car and great project.
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That hub seems to be hammered up badly (green lines), I can't tell if it needs machining to correct it but the edges are standing proud. Some people do the most incredible things to a car, your locknut (gone, who needs it anyway?) and it's thread are sorry examples.

You can get the inner race off by yourself. Heating is an option, but grinding is quite possible too. Tape off the visible part of the hub nose for protection, clamp the hub in a vise and carefully grind away the parts I marked in blue. Leave a very thin bit on, don't grind into the hub itself. You will see the discolouration in the middle where it's thinnest, telling you you're nearly through. Also don't hit the shoulder it's sitting on. When you're doing the second side it usually splits and comes off soon enough.
Use an ordinary angle grinder, a dremel like tool takes forever. Use glasses, gloves (etc etc...) for safety.

You may check if this hub was common with Fiat/Lancia FWD models of the time, if so it might be possible to get replacements relatively easy.

regards
Tom
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Urbancamo
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by Urbancamo » February 22nd, 2013, 11:33 am

One option to remove bearing inner races from hubs is simply use an air hammer with wide and blunt screwdriver-type tool. If you get some leverage behing the race with air hammer tool, always better.
The vibration air hammer produces will cause race to deform it's shape and it looses it's clamping force many times in a second. This is usually enough to slide race off from the hub.

And for the main topic; nice car and the modifications list seems to be spot-on.
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dfcar1
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by dfcar1 » February 22nd, 2013, 1:18 pm

very nice scorpian, always wanted one

lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » February 22nd, 2013, 4:48 pm

Thanks everyone for encouragement and suggestions on the bearing race. I am thinking an acetylene torch would be nice right now. I actually tried to fire up a small propane torch bottle. The damn thing literally flared up and I slung it out the fortunately-open garage door and chased it down with an extinguisher. That was not a good thing to happen, and could have been much worse. So I am leery of those now. I do believe that I might be able to just barely fit a smallish bearing puller if I grind notches into the race. And if the puller can't grab, I'll just keep grinding. And if I nick the hub, well, that hub is pretty beaten up beyond the threads anyway, as you noticed Tom.

So I am wondering if an X1/9 5-Spd Rear Hub works on a Scorp/Monte? For that matter, for future reference, is the X1/9 5-spd knuckle (carrier) the same as a Scorp/Monte? They look the same in photos.

By the way, have sourced new rear wishbone balljoints and when I have those replaced (do not wish to try that here), I am thinking of having the wishbones reinforced with boxing plates down the arms. They just seem to me as not up to the task, but perhaps not really stressed so much after all? Keep in mind I'm going with the Montehospital reinforced cross-member, a strut tower cross brace, and poly bushings.

Thanks
Lynn
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » February 22nd, 2013, 10:38 pm

I meant to say the hub is beaten up as well as the knuckle. Can live with the knuckle but would be nice if the X1/9 hub would work.

Happy to have removed the entire rear undercarriage. Now to start on the front. Anxious to get all the parts off and clean. The sooner the front is disassembled and clean and the ball joints and some special steel rings for one of the motor mounts arrive, the sooner everything can be sent for blasting and powder coating and be ready for reassembly.

I ordered the special rings on-line with a CAD program. They will be pressed over each side of the right motor mount plate “tube” to correct a split that was there when I pressed out the old bushing. Hoping by pressing those on each side and tack welding them, the mount will be good again.
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Needs work.
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Split
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » February 25th, 2013, 2:11 am

Tom, I used a bench grinder with these results. Slightly into the shaft. It did clean up nicely and I would use it, but it turns out the X1/9 hubs do work on a Scorp and I'm sourcing here in the US. I'm not comfortable with the hubs' condition overall.

Anyone ever source these plastic bushings in the housing that bolts to the transmission? Or the retaining washers that go on the axles? Prior owner at some point decided against using all four washers. Glad I'm tearing this car all the way down as there are several areas that were cobbled together. Now I know what's going in, including top grade fasteners.
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Plastic Bushing in Shift Linkage Plate Housing
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Axle retaining washer
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » February 25th, 2013, 9:35 pm

Plastic bushings were on an internet auction site UK (searched the part number and up they pop) and axle retaining washers were at Obert.

Could not source a firewall replacement gasket for the tunnel, but hoping this one works as well or better (thick rubber sheet, rubber grommets, and a rubber firewall boot).
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Tunnel membrane
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Tunnel box membrane
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Nice toys arrived from Italy. Close ratio gear set and taller final drive. Don't know whether I have the guts to tear into the gearbox rebuild. Might hire an expert located here in Berkeley to take it on.
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Bacci Romano gear set and f/d
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TomLouwrier
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by TomLouwrier » February 25th, 2013, 10:34 pm

hi Lynn,

Didn't I use the word 'carefully'? :-)
Glad you got the race off, equally glad you found a way to get a replacement hub.

Regarding the box (nice gearset!): as far as I know this same transmission was built in various forms for Fiat/Lancia and Peugeot/Talbot/Citroen. Details change depending on factory and year, but in general it's one design. The French version is also known as the AC428 and was used in the Citroen CX, the Matra Murena, Talbot Solara and the Italian built C25 / J5 / Express / Ducato van. Badge engineering anyone?
I have some lying around for my Bagheera Upgrade project (sometime not so soon...).
All this meaning that there is actually a Torsen LSD available from Quaife. At least: they had it in the catalogue up until recently under 'vans'. I feel it would fit in nicely with the close ratio gears.

regards
Tom
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lsmull
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Re: 1977 Lancia Scorpion - Vx

Post by lsmull » February 26th, 2013, 2:45 am

Yes I was ham fisted impatient at the end.

Excellent info for gearbox...
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