upgrading a Montecarlo

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AntonioD
Posts: 5
Joined: November 15th, 2011, 3:45 pm

upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by AntonioD »

After a long time , +- 25 years, without making any real improvement on my Montecarlo, i am thinking about some upgrade.
Not a big one, some that i can manage by myself, and i'm looking for advice :-)
I will probably go for a better exhaust line.
Then for a couple of Web carbs, but which ones? 40DCFN or 40DCOE? easy to install? easy to adjust?
And brakes: Tarox are good?
Thanks

Antonio
LanciaNut69
Posts: 61
Joined: June 22nd, 2011, 10:45 am
Location: Newbury, UK

Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by LanciaNut69 »

Hi Antonio,

It really depends on your level of skills as far as work is concerned. Exhaust and carbs is a start - as are cams. DCNFs are an easier install, but you'll have to find the correct Montecarlo inlet manifold and not a Beta one. Alquati means least work of all (if you can find one), a Weber inlet manifold will require moving the position of the alternator. DCOEs will require modification of the gear selector mechanism, and serious modification of the oil filter housing to resite the alternator, as well as the correct Montecarlo inlet manifold. You'll also need a new fuel pump and regulator, as well as the ability or facility to have the car properly tuned.

Upgrading the brake discs to Tarox is a useful upgrade, as is upgrading the pad material too.

As you can probably tell, it's not exactly a straightforward question to answer!

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

Regards

Darren
__________
Book #435
Guy Croft
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Guy Croft »

Carb change is a good 1st step.

DCNF on the Montecarlo - you will find it quite hard to find an inlet manifold, that is the 1st problem.

Next one is the lack of space for airbox and filter system since those carbs sit so high in the engine bay. And without a ducted intake system (which even the standard engine has) you'll be pulling in hot air which is bad for power and a primary cause of detonation problems in that vehicle.

Moreover whilst you can buy DCNF 40 new you can't now get the preferred 44 DCNF. They are no longer made. Plus unless you have an Alquati linkage for the DCNF (which don't tend to come up for sale unless attached a set of carbs) you will find the carb pair almost impossible to connect up. And unless the linkage has built-in adjustment there will be real problems trying to get full throttle at the carb even with the pedal fully depressed. And you need a pretty heavy spring setup at the carb as the car requires a long cable.

Much better - and I say this from a technical perspective not just a personal one - is conversion to DCOE. Years ago I designed a manifold for this. The pattern is now owned by the Montehospital but a few days ago I offered to get the casting done myself and do the machining and in fact an order for 5 off is going to my foundry today along with the pattern equipment. The Montehospital also have a nice airbox made from glassfibre to which I gave my 'seal of approval' some years ago. It comes as a set of parts which you have to finish yourself - but I have just done some work on one (see photos) and it's not exactly 'rocket science'. My client John Brown Engineering is a skilled racecar builder and will finish it off himself.

You could run Weber 40 or 45 DCOE and the new price has never been so good. My choice for an otherwise standard engine would be 45s - apart from fitting 185 air correctors the jets and chokes as supplied by Weber are correct.

The other item well worth the money is the Weber Linkage. Northampton Motorsport 01604 766624 can supply the Weber things and the manifold you'd buy not from me but from Roddy at the Montehospital (http://www.montehospital.com). I can supply inlet manifold gasket and carburettor fitting kit.

Fitting it all up takes many hours but the results will be well-worth the effort. The setup will work well with the standard exhaust but my design header from the Montehospital would be better still.

G
Attachments
pair of 45 DCOE on GC sidedraft manifold for a Beta type installation, the Montecarlo manifold has no offset as the distributor is on the inlet cambox
pair of 45 DCOE on GC sidedraft manifold for a Beta type installation, the Montecarlo manifold has no offset as the distributor is on the inlet cambox
DCOE SETUP.JPG (77.98 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY.JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY.JPG (49.25 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY (1).JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY (1).JPG (58.79 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY (2).JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY (2).JPG (64.78 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY (3).JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY (3).JPG (67.27 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY (4).JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY (4).JPG (76.29 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY (5).JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY (5).JPG (83.58 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY (6).JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY (6).JPG (75.35 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
MH AIRBOX ASSY (7).JPG
MH AIRBOX ASSY (7).JPG (57.74 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
Urbancamo
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Joined: August 8th, 2011, 1:04 pm
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Urbancamo »

Hi there Antonio.

I don't know nothing about this specific Montecarlo case, but the thing I know is that dual carbs really makes Twin Cam alive. No matter what the displacement is. Highly recommended mod and gives you approx. 10-15% more power straight (of course depending on application)

Dont buy those "cheapo"-lingakes for your DCOE's as Guy allready advised. They will give you big headache and annoying, heavy and springy throttle feel. Use Mangoletsi LP4241 or Weber LP1000/LP2000 lingakes. Both are absolutely nice and working pieces. And they last almost forever because they both use bronze bushes in pivot points.

T
GC_25
Guy Croft
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Guy Croft »

The Weber one in my photo has 'mega strong' springs which is what you need with a long cable. Nothing worse than throttles that will not close properly onto the idle stop screw. Incidentally the Weber linkage kit (the one shown is my favorite - a twin cale top mounted version) contains the vital quadrant/balance levers you need.

'Webcon' in the UK are the manufacturers of the Weber linkage BTW. You might be able to buy direct but please use Northampton Motorsport if you can as they give me so much tech help for this site quite freely.

G
Attachments
rigging up a pair of DCOE with an OE Webcon linkage
rigging up a pair of DCOE with an OE Webcon linkage
JB eng_carbs & bits.JPG (153.96 KiB) Viewed 11399 times
AntonioD
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 3:45 pm

Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by AntonioD »

Tanks to all. I will read again carefully the suggestions.

I have already bought parts from Montehospital, they also suggest me this forum:-)

Guy, if i go for 45DCOE, do i need to make changes also to alternator or other components?

IRESA is selling a complete exhaust: does anybody knows this and have an opinion?
Guy Croft
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Guy Croft »

I don't know about Iresa's exhaust product sorry. I know Manuel Iresa in Spain quite well but have never bought from him.

Unless there is someone who has bought one from Iresa and tried it out thoroughly (which my design from Montehospital certainly has been) I don't want any comments/links/photos about it here.

G
AntonioD
Posts: 5
Joined: November 15th, 2011, 3:45 pm

Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by AntonioD »

Didn't know the design of exhaust of Montehospital was yours: then i suppose you have some experience on it.
No problems on ancillaries when taking the 45DCOE, Guy?
Guy Croft
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Guy Croft »

The GC design ex system is shown on this page of Rod's website:

http://montehospital.net/shop/index.php ... x&cPath=87

You might need a few 'MH' bits to complete the installation read here:

http://montehospital.info/techinfo/pdf/ ... lation.pdf

** Fact is converting almost anything from standard requires a bit of old fashioned 'DIY' (do it yourself..)**

GC
LanciaNut69
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Joined: June 22nd, 2011, 10:45 am
Location: Newbury, UK

Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by LanciaNut69 »

AntonioD wrote:No problems on ancillaries when taking the 45DCOE, Guy?
Answered in the first post Antonio

' DCOEs will require modification of the gear selector mechanism, and serious modification of the oil filter housing to resite the alternator, as well as the correct Montecarlo inlet manifold. You'll also need a new fuel pump and regulator, as well as the ability or facility to have the car properly tuned.'

I'll add that you will also want to look at the reworked timing belt cover that takes the new alternator position into account and won't foul the belts, which the original one almost certainly will.

thank you

Darren
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Book #435
AntonioD
Posts: 5
Joined: November 15th, 2011, 3:45 pm

Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by AntonioD »

Thanks to all, specially to Guy.
I think i will use the Monte for the summer as it is.
Then by October +- i will start modifying.
AntonioD
Posts: 5
Joined: November 15th, 2011, 3:45 pm

Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by AntonioD »

by the way, what +- can i gain with the 2 45DCOE?
Guy Croft
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Guy Croft »

A LOT

G
Urbancamo
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Urbancamo »

But is there really gains in street use when using max. 34 mm chokes. No. 40 mm carbs works fine with 2-litre engine.

But if you are plannig to use 36 mm or bigger chokes, then go for 45 mm carbs.

T
GC_25
Guy Croft
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Re: upgrading a Montecarlo

Post by Guy Croft »

putting the 45s on from 'day one' gives you the flexibility of bigger-than-standard chokes (ie: over 36mm) later rather than buying new carbs (if it was on 40s). I'd use 40s on a 1600 but not for choice on a 2 liter. Some years back whenI introduced the adaptor plates (that Mitch is now producing) I did a lot of bolt-on conversions of 130TC Strada engines from 40 to 45s (36mm chokes) on otherwise standard engines and the difference in power and torque was astonishing.

I know that many expect someone like me to dyno every_single_thing but there are times, believe me, that the gain in performance 'speaks for itself'.

G


Last bumped by AntonioD on April 30th, 2012, 9:43 pm.
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