SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

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MattD
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SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

Post by MattD »

Hello Everyone.

My first post on this forum, so is a bit of background information about my project, and reasons for joining.
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The car is an SSC Stylus which was the final genesis of the Striker > Phoenix > Fury > Stylus , front engined, longditudinal, rear drive Sylva family designed by Jeremy Phillips.

Having had multiple Fiat 127s, AlfaSuds and eventually Lancia’s, when a company car came along, I bought the Stylus as a kit in 1999 and spent 2 years building it.
Initially I fitted a self refurbished Fiat 132 2ltr TC and gearbox, with a few mods from Guy’s first book. The running gear is all Ford Escort Mk2.

After a while I started to do some motorsport and joined Farnborough District Motor Club, near my home in the South East.
The competition bug bit and keeping a long story short, I had 8 years of fun with the TC and later a 190 bhp Zetec engine.

My original plan had always been to add forced induction to the 8v TC, and there was unfinished business in a way.
Just when I started to look into the expensive process of tuning the Zetec for 220 bhp+, an offer of a turbo 16v TC came my way at a price I couldn’t refuse.

So today the spec is:-

Lancia Thema 16V Turbo TC, ported head and matched inlet manifold, STD valves, OE camshafts and fully balanced OE bottom end. Wet sump, big wing, with oil cooler.
TurboTechnics Garett-T3 Hybrid turbocharger, Thema intercooler.
OE dual Magneti Marelli ignition and Bosch fuel injection
Fiat Bellhousing mated to a Brian Hill Ford Type 9 gearbox, using a Guy Croft adapter plate
Ford Escort rear axle, with Quaife ATB diff, 4.1:1 ratio.
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Ultimate performance from the engine is dependant on how brave I am with the bleed valve, but a safe realistic figure is around 240 bhp with a healthy torque curve to go with it.

My intention is to refurbish this engine myself with forged pistons & steel rods, some headwork, revised camshafts, modern aftermarket electronics, and probably a dry sump system.
If I can make some sensible choices with this forums assistance, retain reliability, and break the 300bhp barrier I will be happy.
That would be about the limit for the chassis, the transmission, and my driving skill.

Anyway, I look forward to some constructive discussion in the future.
First thing to do is to convince the wife to buy me Guy’s new book for Christmas.

Kind Regards

Matt
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Urbancamo
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Re: SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

Post by Urbancamo »

Hi Matt!
And welcome to the forum.

Nice looking kit car for sure.

I'm interested how much this car weighs? It has to be outrageous power-to weight ratio all ready.

- Tommi
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WhizzMan
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Re: SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

Post by WhizzMan »

That's a very nice car you have there. A colleague of mine told me last Tuesday he was building a striker and it's nice to see a cousin.

From what I understand, these engines benefit greatly from a better inlet and outlet manifold. You should be able to gain substantially more flow and power with the same turbo and turbo pressure, just because you have to pump less hard to get the air in and out with the improved manifolds. Check out the Delta Integrale 16V turbo and Fiat Coupe turbo 16VT topics, there should be plenty of information about what others have done to their engines to gain power.
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MattD
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Re: SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

Post by MattD »

Hi Tommi, Hi Whizzman

Thanks for the comments.

The car is actually quite heavy relative to a Striker or Westfield, about 650 kgs, so with 240bhp I make that around 370bhp/tonne.
An increase to 300bhp gets the power to weight ratio to about 460bhp/tonne.

And you are right, that's a lot of power in a lightweight sports car.

Problem is, when comparing myself to some more recently built kits which run in similar sprint classes, I'm competing with some serious machinery.
Mostly they're very light cars with bike engines, but often now they are car derived all aluminium Zetec SE with 200+bhp, or Duratecs producing 280+bhp of normally aspirated power. Even with the current economic climate, there are some serious guys, with serious budgets out there.

Changing the subject slightly, can anyone let me know if there are any significant mechanical differences between my Thema 16VT engine and the Fiat Coupe 4 cylinder unit ? Just considering if that's a better place to start, rather than pulling mine from the car ?

My other questions will have to wait until I can post in the proper technical section of the forum.

Rgds

Matt
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TomLouwrier
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Re: SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

Post by TomLouwrier »

hi Matt,

Insane power/weight ratio.... must be good fun ;-)

Four cylinder Coupé engine? Depends on what model you mean. The first version ran basically the same engine you have now; 2.0, 4 cylinder, straight descendant of the original Lampredi TC.
I'm not sure if the version fitted to the early Coupé had balance shafts but I guess so, since the turbo version came straight from Lancia (Delta turbo) and they added those shafts.
Later Coupé’s had the 1.8 as also found in the Barchetta and most other F/A/L cars from late '96 on. Alfa had it in a longer stroke 2.0 - 4 cylinder version.
Closely related to the 5-pot 2.0 and 2.4 engines: this is the modular engine family. The 1.8 (and the 2.0 AR?) do not have a balance shaft, the others have 2.

If weight is very important to you, you might switch to an engine from the Fiat line that does not have those shafts but is identical otherwise.

regards
Tom
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Honza
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Re: SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

Post by Honza »

Nice car.

thema turbo vs. Fiat coupe turbo are almost the same engines- probably only difference is engine code, and engine management.
Slightly different camshafts and diferences on valve sizes are possible, size of turbo and throttle body (52 vs. 56mm) is maybe different...but I think they are in probably same in 90% of cases.
ALL 4cyl. 2l TC engines in coupe have balance shafts, so if you want to get some weight saving you should try to get engine block for example from croma turbo etc. My note to new modular engines- all 5cyl engines have balance shaft, 2ltr TS engine has also, smaller engines not, however here are some exceptions - for example Lancia lybra 1.8 or Lancia delta II VVT wich has balance schafts.

Coupe uses weber-marelli ECU wich is from my point of view better due to wider support of tuners and available performance upgrades, it also uses MAP sensor instead of Airflow meter. There is also excelent tuner in Britain wich offer live mapping services of those ecus, so if I would wanted to be low with my budget I would thinking about conversion to coupe 16V turbo management.
Thema uses Bosh wich is good only for its factory 60-2 trigger wheel and future changes for aftermarket ecu.

It isn´t problem to push 16V turbo engine up to ~370BHP with std. internals but for circuit racing I would run lower values in standart trim due to reliability.

I would start with these simple upgrades:

-thema VIS or kappa 16v turbo intake manifold (very rare, but not impossible to get one), you can also use only standart part bolted to the head and create own plenum chamber - some weight saving of this variant is side productand possibility of rerouting and shortening of the pipes from turbo-IC-to intake manifold

-tipo 107kw/coupe 102kW cam used as an intake cam (10,15mm/9,6mm lift)
-coupe 16vt intake cam used as an exhaust cam (8,5mm lift)
(values of previously mentioned cams are very simmilar to standart 8v integrale figures, or to figure of milder profiles for turbo engines from reputable cam manufacturers)

- larger throttle plate if your engine still have 52mm. 56mm could be found on almost every 90" 2ltr Fiat TC engine and it could be also easily rebored to 60mm...

- you write , that you plan forged internals.. not bad, engine could be pushed to your limits and skills...

-live map to weber-marelli ecu from coupe...
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WhizzMan
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Re: SSC Stylus 16V Turbo - New member introduction

Post by WhizzMan »

To my knowledge, only the 2.0 8V turbo bottom end had no balance shafts, the 16V turbos all have them. I know they've used the 8V bottom with a reversed 16V head on the Alfa 155 BTCC cars, in atmo setup. That's quite an engineering feat and I wouldn't try doing that unless you are slightly masochistic.

From what I understand, 300 HP is about the limit for stock internals on the 16VT, con rods and pistons will suffer if you go over that.

The VIS intake is an interesting thing to try, it's the first time I've seen anyone mention it in combination with a Turbo. It may work, but it may also give you strange results, given the fact that resonances work totally different in a turbo engine. For a full on atmo race engine, I doubt it will work. If you want over 250 BHP, you really want short trumpets, throttle bodies and an air box. anything to accommodate lower revs like the VIS intake will just get in the way of flow at the insane revs and fill you'll need to achieve that kind of power. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never seen anyone put something like that on once they go over 220 BHP or so.
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