Lada TC from north...

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Urbancamo
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Urbancamo » February 11th, 2012, 4:48 pm

Hi Ian. That's a good point and I'm such a bloke who usually won't say "never". I know how good this EDIS-system is. Modern ignition systems are very good.
But I don't have negative experiences on these Crane ignition systems. They all worked better than stock ignition and that's great thing. Just what we are looking for.
All electronics can fail and in this particular case it's pretty rare.

In the past years, I've heard numerous times these phrases; "why don't you put an MS and throttle bodys on to it", "why dont you put a BIG turbo on it" etc...

This car and my own Lada are made strictly following the KISS-principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) So they contain carburettors and distributors and all kinds of "old school"- technogy.
Why, you can ask?

I like doing things like they are always done. In a case they work. If something doesn't work, I'll find something better. The whole traditional engine building scene is slowly dying.
15-20 years ago you heard occasionally cars with dual carbs. Nowadays, none. Zero. In our little 55.000 people town, if you heard some deep bass note under the hood, it's one of our team members driving. We have 3 daily driven cars with dual carbs. That's something you don't see regularly in this country.

Nowadays people are always stuffing their cars full of electronics. No one really want to use traditional options. Meqasquirters often say that carbs are badly working, petrol smelling things that are hard to adjust, won't stay balanced etc.
I've personally all these years studied how carbs work and how they are tuned correctly. I've also collected info on some old school tuners. That's some heritage you want to collect before it's completely gone.

You can always make your car better, but you can easily end up overdoing it if you have a chance to do it. That's endless path. I've seen it numerous times. When you are always building or planning the next step, your car never isn't finished.
I'm very satisfied how good results can be achieved with old school technology. And that's enough for me.

Tommi
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timinator
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by timinator » February 12th, 2012, 5:17 am

Urbancamo wrote: You can always make your car better, but you can easily end up overdoing it if you have a chance to do it. That's endless path. I've seen it numerous times. When you are always building or planning the next step, your car never isn't finished.
I'm very satisfied how good results can be achieved with old school technology. And that's enough for me.
Tommi
Hi Tommi, Good for you. When one needs other people's approval to enjoy their car something will always be missing and satisfaction is that something.

Tim

robert kenney
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by robert kenney » February 12th, 2012, 5:16 pm

Changed my mind. Bye.
Robert Kenney # 111

Brit01
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Brit01 » April 26th, 2012, 1:49 pm

Urbancamo,

Have you set up the filters for the trumpets yet? What did you decide upon to cover the tall air corrector jets also?

Regards

Brit01

Guy Croft
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Guy Croft » April 26th, 2012, 5:18 pm

yes, re:

"why don't you put an MS and throttle bodies on to it?" "Why don't you put a BIG turbo on it?"

I get that flung at me 20 times a week. I really hate it. 90% of the folk who want all that techno_sh*t have never worked on anything more sophisticated than a bicycle their entire lives, know everything & nothing from forums.

G

samo
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by samo » April 26th, 2012, 7:28 pm

Guy Croft wrote:yes, re:

"why don't you put an MS and throttle bodies on to it?" "Why don't you put a BIG turbo on it?"

I get that flung at me 20 times a week. I really hate it. 90% of the folk who want all that techno_sh*t have never worked on anything more sophisticated than a bicycle their entire lives, know everything & nothing from forums.

G
I get about 20 these each week:

"How many BHP will your Lanica have? If I were doing it mine would have a at least 600 horse power..."

One clever bloke once even suggested I should swap the engine for a Mitsubishi Lancer engine as they are similar cars (both 4WD and 2.0 turbo) and it should fit without too much hassle.

Sure sure now go the cartoons are on TV now...

Tommi respect to you and your work! You seem to be doing a good job with clear results! I had a similar project before my current one where I tuned up and modified a Skoda Favorit (even more technically outdated) but what the inappropriate I had a lot of fun. Keep up the good work and for peace of mind put a turbo on it ;)
Limited edition #317

Urbancamo
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Urbancamo » April 28th, 2012, 1:09 pm

Hi everybody and thanks for your comments.

There isn't much to tell. There has been very little usage for this car after last ice track day. No updates at the moment Chris. Sorry.

Couple things to notice after track day:

- Limited slip differential with 6kg preload works like a charm. No turn-in understeer, no sudden oversteer. Very easy and straight-forward to handle with throttle usage.
This is A MUST thing to have!
Comparison.jpg
Left picture; ordinary winter tyres
Right picture; studded race tyres
Comparison.jpg (125.79 KiB) Viewed 5544 times
Comparison between tyre grip. Not the best pictures, but you get the idea. On the right picture it's all ready sliding out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTYgUCoV ... e=youtu.be

Small clip with race tyres...

Suspension is bit too soft with studded race tyres. As you see pictures, rear works fine, inner wheel stays nicely in the ground and keeps a traction, but car tilts too much.
It's hard to drive because weight transfer is so big. This isn't a problem when you'r driving with ordinary winter tyres, but because studded race tyres will give you almost tarmac-like-grip, things start to happen.
We'll see how we can improve that in future. Small improvements can change things radically.
ralli 076.JPG
ralli 076.JPG (171.21 KiB) Viewed 5544 times
Otherwise the overall stance is good. Rear is much lower than front as it should be. As you might know, russians rised the original Fiat 124 by 2" (50 mm) without redesigning the rear links at all!
When you lower the rear end the level it should be, traction and handling dramatically increases.
I once had rear even higher than OE (thanks for reinforced rear springs) and it was terrible to drive!

-T
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Urbancamo
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Urbancamo » June 1st, 2012, 6:28 pm

This car is now back to the road after three months standing.

My friend bought new Crane XR700 ignition box because as stated earlier, former box was clearly somewhat broken. It got real bad after Ice track day, spark was very weak and TC ran real bad.
It was pretty hard to find these boxes anymore, but fortunately one shop had them in stock.

We tried to start the car after we installed the new ignition box but it refused. There was a good spark and fuel. Then I decided to squirt some new fuel into carburettors.
After that it fired immeadiately. Then it started to run like it was real lean, it backfired through carbs and run weak, but after a while, it started to run reasonably well.
After refill, car would run like it should be. No issues at all.These modern fuel get bad real fast!

If I forgot petrol in my lawnmower and it stays there over winter, you have real hard time in next spring when you try to start her up. After few hundred pulls, it might start. After that it will run real bad. When you refill it with new petrol, it runs like a champ.
If you put some petrol stabilizer when you leave it standing, it fires almost immeadiately in next spring.

Weird or what?

-T
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WhizzMan
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by WhizzMan » June 2nd, 2012, 8:21 am

Mixtures of fuel in different times of the year tends to vary as well. If you use winter fuel, there are a lot of low boiling point chemicals in there. In the summer, they put in only a little of those. Trying to start something that was on summer fuel in spring, will be hard, because you'd need more low boiling point chemicals in there. The little bit that were in there, have evaporated during the period you left the engine sitting. Winter fuel that was in there too long will probably have evaporated most of the low boiling point chemicals as well, but you have a slightly bigger chance to get it started in spring. Also, modern fuels are made for injection vehicles, carbs need different mixtures to have a good start under all circumstances.
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Urbancamo
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Urbancamo » November 9th, 2012, 8:36 pm

This car has been in modest use in this year but I have something to tell you:

When we tried to start this car after a month of sitting, nothing as usual. Won't even promise. Spark plugs looked very wet (NGK BP6ES) and car refused to start.

Then we tried Champion N11YC plugs wich our rally friend has used in Fiat Twin Cam engines very succesfully. Fired up instantly. With NGK plugs it always needed several pumps of throttle after cold start. And I have seen many sets of NGK plugs in this engine, new and used.
Now you can just start and it will run nicely even when cold. How can this be possible? Both plugs are similar, copper cored OE plugs. Car has never ever started this good with NGK plugs. With NGK plugs it always needed pretty much "nursing" after starting but not anymore.
Ignition is Crane XR 700 with Fiat OE distributor and standard coil.

These old dual carburettor engines always keeps me amazed. I can't tell why one spark plug won't work and other will? Maybe you can? And notice: this message is not meant to blame NGK plugs, it is just a story in real in life conditions wich I don't really understand.

-T
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badlyworntoy

Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by badlyworntoy » January 21st, 2013, 9:11 pm

Tommi

I'm having exactly the same problem with clearence around the back of the rear IDF carburettor and bulkhead on my Lada. I'm trying to make a sealed airbox system work, but I'm really struggling to find a way to do it without cutting the bodywork.

You never posted any pictures of what you came up with in the end?

Ian

Urbancamo
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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Urbancamo » January 21st, 2013, 9:47 pm

That's true Ian. I never did post a pictures because after several carboard models I just gave up. No room at all to create anything reasonable.
Twin Cam engine in a Lada is so badly angled towards the bulkhead that space is very limited around the rear carb. This is something you cannot change. How tall engine rubber mounts do you run? If they are over 50 mm with 2000 TC, engine will sit very high.
There is also slight difference between Fiat and Lada engine mounts (the steel parts bolted to block)
Fiat ones will cause engine to sit bit higher than Lada ones.

After fitting the hood scoop and measuring the temp around trumpets I was satisfied with the results.

In a Seat rallycar there is much more room because the whole middle part of bulkhead is sledgehammered inside by several centimetres. You can almost fit your fist between the cambox end and bulkhead.
I can send you a pictures if you want to estimate the space.

T
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badlyworntoy

Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by badlyworntoy » January 21st, 2013, 9:58 pm

Its a real headache Tommi, I'm loathe to cut the car...makes so much mess and Guy says I must fit a sealed airbox.

Only other thing I can think of is putting a panel filter and scoop in the bonnet which seals down onto a some sort of air box when shut?

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Re: Lada TC from north...

Post by Guy Croft » January 22nd, 2013, 12:29 am

Ian - you are one the (few &) most skilled people I have ever met

... and a lot of people share my opinion, trust me.

Just design it and make it - OK?

Look at how I shoehorned an airbox (above) into an impossibly difficult space on Cyril's Cortina..

and it was difficult - but do-able ....

when I am paid I always deliver - and you will too.

G
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