My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

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WhizzMan
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by WhizzMan » July 28th, 2012, 9:42 am

How did you get these AFR measurements and boost values exactly? Were they taken with a static load, or during acceleration? Were they all done with the same throttle position? You should get the static load values figured out first, before dealing with acceleration enrichment. If your measurements were taken during acceleration, you have no indication what the values would be during static load, so those measurements that were not during static load, should be done again.

To me these figures look like you have much more air getting in to your system than your ECU can compensate for during low load. Once you get "on the power" the ECU probably is assuming higher turbo pressures than you are allowing and is injecting more fuel to compensate for those. I think it will be very likely that once you let the turbo build pressure the way you did normally, you will be seeing lean fueling consistently across the rev range. Mind you, this is an arm chair analysis made on just one single graph that may or may not be accurate. It can be total nonsense, right on spot or anything in between. The first that is required for doing this properly is decent measurements, for at least a number of "relevant" load points in the 3-dimensional load/rpm/afr matrix.
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » July 28th, 2012, 9:31 pm

@Whizzman - this is NOT an exact graph! This is something I draw up from looking at the video of the instruments. Was suppose to be a measurement with max throttle all the way. The engine is not running lean anymore! It's normal that it has different AFR under different regimes of operation. I am still waiting for a chance to measure a completely OE 8 V integrale AFR. But a similar vintage car of a similar construction was in it's OE setup running AFR 16 when off boost!

We will now stop this discussion as I feel it is getting out of hand. Once I have some professional results I'll publish them. First of all I see a lot of you have great knowledge about modern ECUs and tuning modern engines. But this is stone age ECU, it doesn't think or calculate ANYTHING it has 2 parameters Manifold Absolute Pressure and Throttle position. And according to this it dumps some fuel into the manifold... So predefined map that does not change. Second the fuel pressure regulator is set to a static pressure at idle but it is also boost operated so under boost it allows more fuel into the fuel rail this is the third variable.

And don't forget Lancia and other private racing teams have tuned this ECUs and raced them for 20 years. Way before the WB lambda and EGT sensors hit the mainstream tuning community!

So for now we are finished discussing the AFRs...

I did took apart the entire dashboard and cleaned all the contacts, connectors... also tested the voltmeter and it registered 11,5 V when connected directly to a 12V source. I measured with my digital voltmeter the voltage I get on the dashboard connectors and it came out at 12,4V and measured on the battery I get 12,4V. So after leaning the contacts it is a bit better but it is still only showing 11V during operation when it sould be 13,8V. I also changed the oil pressure gauge and cleaned the contacts but I didn't spot any difference still showing 0 pressure on idle when warm. Oil pressure waring light that is connected to a separate sensor is OFF so I don't think it's a pressure issure. I am still waiting for a mechanical gauge to arrive.

I have done almost 800 km with the car already so the first service is almost due. I better shop around for some Selenia Racing oil.
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Spark plug coloration after 100km. I think this looks OK now!
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The original 2 way splitter non return valve didn't work so I tried to create something similar but it does have a problem. When braking there is a leak from the nozzles.
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I gave the car a quick wash today.
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The OE cabin air filter looks like it's filled with dog hair... nasty! Took it apart and inserted a modern paper filter.
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 2nd, 2012, 8:37 am

Last two days I have been working like a mad man...

I installed a fuel pressure gauge and a oil pressure gauge. Fuel pressure that I set by AFR meter is now at 3 bar which is exactly the stock setting.

After also taking apart all the grounding points on the car and cleaning them and removing the zync plating from them and removing paint from the body where the points are contacting it i have more stable readings from the gauges. Getting almost 12V on the Voltmeter, engine is running 5° cooler....

Oil pressure gauge still not reading much on tickover when engine is hot. I did make a mistake of buying the mechanical gauge for 10 bars that cannot measure exactly the pressure of around 1 bar. I was surprised that the OE gauge seems to be pretty accurate from 2 bar onwards. I am getting pressure of more than 1 bar / 1000 rpm.

I also changed the oil and filter. Oil is now Shell Racing 10w-60 and the filter is Fiat OE. When removing the sump plug I noticed that the oil pickup is sitting almost flush on the oil pan. So i removed the oil pan and made a dent into it to have a few mm clearance. I also found a few small metal particles in the oil pan that I have no idea where they came from. They are tiny not like bearing falling apart, but there is always a possibility a disaster will occur. I am now SERIOUSLY WORRIED and highly depressed about this issue...

And I took the car to have the wheel alignment set professionally. I only missed by 1/3° on front wheels and even less on the rear wheels!
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Fuel pressure gauge.
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Oil pressure gauge.
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Oil pan has a depression around the oil pickup now.
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The metal particles. They look like aluminum but i am not sure. The circled ones are from the engine, the crossed debrre has fallen in after the sump removal...
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Brit01
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by Brit01 » August 2nd, 2012, 2:31 pm

Where are you taking your oil pressure outlet from? The oil filter zone?
1 bar or less is very common with alfas at hot idle. I get around 0.8 bar at 800/850 rpm. 1 bar at 1000 rpm with TWS 10w60.
But it shoots up quickly to 45-50(3.5 bar) psi+ at 3000 rpm

Those tiny particles do look worry some.
Was this after the break in period. Isn't it common to get some tiny particles after a break in from the rings bedding in etc?

Urbancamo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by Urbancamo » August 2nd, 2012, 7:00 pm

I think those particles are some residue from engine assembly. I wouldn't worry much.

If your engine starts to spit pieces like that, you are in real trouble. Even totally toasted gearboxes (with massive bearing failure) don't spill chunks that big...
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 4th, 2012, 9:17 am

The oil pressure was measured by removing the oil pressure switch and installing a 1,5m rubber hose that was connected to the gauge. Coming to think of that maybe that also lowered the pressure that the gauge was reading... The oil pressure switch is on the oil filter carrier. I guess that the problem is the read out as if the pressure was really only 0,5 bar the warning light would come on. And don't worry I did test that the warning light is working and the oil pressure switch is a new OE switch.

In any case the pressure shoots up immediately and i get about 3,5 - 4 bar at 3000rpm.

This is the first oil change so some particles are to be expected in the brake in period. And they are tiny nothing like a bearing letting go. We'll soon see if there is anything wrong the oil pressure will start to drop soon probably.

@Urbancamo - you can't compare engines and gearboxes :) I 've seen both when they fall apart. And gearbox never produces big metal particles unless you get broken gear teeth. But when an engine destroys a bearing you get nice flakes of about 5 mm size typically and the oil pickup looks like a hedgehog!
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 13th, 2012, 11:44 am

After loosing my mind for 2 weeks I finally traced the problem of not being able to turn off the heating to a split cog that only enabled me to open and close the warm air flaps about 3/4 of the way! As happy as I was to find the problem the enthusiasm was lost as soon as I realized that the gigantic heating unit has to come out! And doing that is no picnic...
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Split cog...
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The mother of all air boxes...
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A lot of swearing was done to remove the box...
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 16th, 2012, 11:14 am

Spy photos from the wheel refurbishment procedure... Sorry for the bad photos.
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Sandblasted and power coated.
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Color removed in a lathe.
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Same wheel different camera.
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 17th, 2012, 9:23 pm

I installed a heat hood scoop to vent out the hot air and prevent water accumulation around the spark plugs. And spent an afternoon fitting new rear shelf cords.
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Rear parcel shelf as it should be.
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Heat extractor installed.
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 20th, 2012, 8:13 pm

Decided to repair the 2 scratches I had on the car today. Sorry for the big pictures.
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This happened while the bumper was in storage.
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Flatting back the lacquer till the scratch is no longer visible.
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Polishing with an abrasive polishing agent.
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This one was even deeper but luckily not down to the base.
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:)
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 21st, 2012, 5:40 pm

A few bits and pieces arrived today...
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New contacts and rubber caps for the engine harness overhaul.
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Grill frame re-polished.
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Wheels finished. Not bad I think!
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samo
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by samo » August 22nd, 2012, 9:11 pm

Wheels fitted! Now this is no longer a project but a CAR!
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1NRO
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by 1NRO » August 23rd, 2012, 5:30 pm

Most excellent, the wheels set the car off just right.

Top job, enjoy the car.
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Brit01
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Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by Brit01 » August 23rd, 2012, 7:33 pm

Beautiful!

All that work and it's finally on the road! Well done.

How's it running now? Any niggling details to fix?
When will you break in the engine?

tricky
Posts: 101
Joined: July 6th, 2010, 5:41 pm

Re: My Lancia Delta Integrale 8V restoration project

Post by tricky » August 23rd, 2012, 7:53 pm

outstanding, enjoyed watching.
Twice as many valves

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