MSD IGNITION

[Brit01]

Do you have any feedback about Mallory?

Crane hi-6 also but come in at a higher price.
Almost worth considering a Megajolt system when reaching those prices.

[nabihelosta]

Good evening gentlemen

Perry please excuse me, I know I've been very awkward and I've asked a lot those couple of days, but that's me. Please bare me some more questions. I don't do anything because it should be done like that, I like to learn and see why it should be this or that. Sorry mate.

First I proved today that your theory of using the MSD white wire is correct. I was installing a 6AL-2 unit on a BMW M5 engine, which has a Motronic EFI and ignition system. The instructions recommended exclusively to use the two shielded green and violet MSD wires, connecting them to the crank trigger. I did that, but the car had terrible ignition retard. From 400bhp, it dropped literally to 160bhp and lost all its torque. Then I remembered your words, and used the white wire on the coil trigger, and the engine flew again! It did 408bhp.

Second, with never rejecting your wiring theory, I'm a bit confused about my car's setup. Please can you clarify me the whole matter? I know it takes some time, but please help me. I did a fast drawing diagram, can you please fill it as if you were installing an MSD 6AL on my car?

Many thanks Perry

Nabih

[n2oxide]

The MSD GREEN and VIOLET crank trigger wire is ONLY for MSD Crank Trigger kit. That's why it has its own special plug. It is NEVER meant to attach to any other system.

From the coil negative - the wire to to tacho goes to the msd GREY tacho signal wire. The Negative Wire from the GM HEI goes to the WHITE.

From the coil positive, from switched and to GM HEI, this goes to the MSD small red.

This now leaves a coil with NO WIRES right ?

Then you attach the MDS ORANGE / BLACK coil wires ( orange to positive and black to negative ) to the coil.

The MSD takes over the coil, NOTHING ELSE TO ATTACH TO COIL OR IT WILL FRY WHATEVER YOU ATTACH.

8bhp at peak.............buy that horsepower for that little money anywhere else.

Perry

[nabihelosta]

This could NEVER be as clear as that!

Wow Perry you're awesome! Many many thanks for your precious time.

Yes... 8bhp for 400$.. This is something to consider. Yet more to come on this BMW, as the costumer is buying the programmable MSD unit soon. And I trust it to do some serious improvement, as the engine is highly tuned (13:1 CR), has a 150bhp nitrous dry shot, revs till 9000, and with some magic on the ignition map (just as I did on the fuel map) some more bhp would be unleashed. A very nice drag car indeed. 10.4 seconds on quarter-mile at 130mph.

Thank you again Perry.

Nabih

[Guy Croft]

I should just like to say how impressed I am by the exchange here. Anyone who has read my Facebook will know that as far as I am concerned 'cables' are one of the 'GREAT MYSTERIES OF RACE ENGINES'.....and the less I have to do with them the better!

Let's face it one man's problem may seem insignificant to another - but there is nothing worse than having the problem 'thrown back in your face'. This has absolutely not been the case here. And from what I read that is generally the way on this forum and quite right too.

Well done Perry! Having met and talked to you about your very high-pressure job - I think I know how little free time you have.

G

[nabihelosta]

Guy

The exchange that happened here is the reason serious car lovers like us are on this forum.

Needless to say that each and every member on this forum is an awesome gentleman, an enthusiast, has sooner or later experienced some sort of frustration on a problem, and knows exactly how relieving it is to get an expert help you with the exact details you need, in an accurate way, beyond your expectations.

I almost immediately knew that Perry is the most busy person among us maybe, with all his responsibilities at work and as a club president, so I really give him all the credit for his precious help. Not only he answered, he answered in the most accurate and beneficiary way. It couldn't have been better.

Thank you Guy again for this awesome forum. If you weren't a real honest gentleman, you wouldn't have gathered all those awesome gentlemen in your forum.

Keep up the good work, and we're here to help with whatever we can.

Nabih

[Brit01]

I'm looking at the Crane systems and the specs appear to be more competitive than MSD/Mallory etc. Also Testimonials are great.

Crane: max 12 sparks per stroke at lower revs.


Crane:
Spark Output (millijoules) 1,200 Millijoules
Minimum Operating Voltage 6 V
Maximum Operating Voltage 18 V


MSD:
Spark Output (millijoules) 135-145 Millijoules
Minimum Operating Voltage 12 V
Maximum Operating Voltage 15 V

[n2oxide]

OK, go and buy the Crane ignition and don't listen to the man that races 3,500 horsepower nitromethane fuel dragsters who uses MSD on his race cars, classic cars, sports cars and his daily driver. Nine cars plus my daily in fact for the past 25 years.

Crane are famous for Camshafts. Andy Crane died last year and the name has been sold to branding. Their ignitions do not reflect the 40 years of research and development that MSD have. Now if MSD started selling Camshafts, I would not buy from them for the same reason. Would you get your Fiat 8v twin cam stuff from elsewhere or stick to the man that knows best ?

Crane stuff is the same old Made in China poor that try and fake the MSD. See my other thread as its too much to go into again. Crane does not output a secondary voltage between sparks, only 20 sparks per rotation under 3,000 rpm, spark energy hence is 120mj per rotation not per spark so that's just 60mj.

Take the free advice; buy the MSD. Don't make me write a 5 page essay about the MSD and start showing you 10 years of data logger information.

Perry

[Brit01]

Perry,

With all due respect I did not mention anywhere I was not listening to you. I took your advice but I always look at the competition and don't just rush out and buy one piece without doing my homework on 1 man's testimonial.
Maybe Guy knows you personally and can vouch for you. In racing there are many sponsors involved so I hope you understand that one has to approach these reviews with a touch of skepticism at first.

Do you think the components of MSD are made in USA? I cannot verify this. Crane state theirs are made in USA but I very much doubt this. Maybe assembled in USA but who knows these days.


Data logging sheets would be good to look at I must say.

Best Regards

Chris

[n2oxide]

Chris,

Just like our host, GC, there are industry standards that professionals stick too. NHRA, IHRA and NASCAR also have industry standard protocols they stick too. MSD is the industry standard. I can recommend only MSD and know only that the others do not provide the same characteristics. Why even waste any time or money on other products that are 2nd best.

Examples........Motech, Holley, NOS, Strange, Lenco. There are dozens of copies of all these USA sources, but the leaders and the winners in real motorsport stick to the best and the most experienced.

I bought a very well sorted 131 Racing. But it was missing a dry sump system. Do you think (even as an outsider involved with prestigious V8 engine builders) I would have gone to anyone other than Guy Croft to build and supply my dry sump system ? There was no price negotiating, there was no comparing. There was nothing more than order, pay, fit and know I can forget and not worry. Would I recommend MSD ? Would I recommend Guy Croft ? Think all those who read this will know the answer.

As the saying goes, forget the rest and buy the best !

Perry

[Brit01]

The MSD unit does interest me and I might well go ahead and choose this one. Got to get it right the first time as it will be brought down from USA by a colleague. These
Crane state NASCAR use Crane systems which caught my attention though. Harley Davidson also I believe.

So MSD were the pioneers of this system?

100% agree with you on GC's systems. Been viewing his work for the last year or so and it is impressive. I am new to ignition systems and have had very few discussions regarding these. An Alfa member did comment on how impressed he was with the Crane system. Why is is more expensive than MSD? I don't know.

All the best

Chris

[Brit01]

QQ Perry.


The programmable 6AL system: Can this be used to convert to a distributerless system(like the megajolt) and also be used just a standard 6AL system?

These new MSD programmable digital 6AL-2 ignition boxes give you the ability to tune an ignition curve or boost timing map from a PC. You still receive the 20 degree duration of multiple sparks combined with higher output to ensure complete combustion

Regards

Chris

[Brit01]

Perry,

What distributor, coil, plugs and HT cables are you currently using? Did you keep the original distributor and coil when you installed the MSD?

Regards

Chris

[Brit01]

Perry,

Do I need Resistor type plugs with the MSD 6A unit?
My current plugs are B7ES

Thinking of getting BP7EIX or if needed BPR7EIX.

Regards,

Chris

[n2oxide]

You can use standard Coil and Distributor, makes no difference.

And Spark Plug choice is personal................just to make a point, I use cold grade 9 non protruding. B9ECS from NGK. But you don't even notice with the MSD. They help a lot with the nitrous !

Perry