1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

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Denver
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Denver »

Thank you for the answers , problem is , how much an autobianchi engine costs and where i can find one ? here in romania... i don`t know for sure if there is autobianchi in romania , i was thinking of the Fiat 127 engine two , the ohv one with 0.9 litre and 50 hp , anyway i want to make a great car of it , there is a huge problem no matter what engine i use... the gearbox and whole traction sistem , will they stand to a more powerfull engine ? and it`s the 4 speed one , if i will be 100% sure i will do the uno engine idea i will buy the engine first , gearbox , disc brakes , everything extra the car will need and when i have them all i will do the swap , suspensions , everything , if i started this modifications there will be a race car out of it , thank you again for the answers

thank you Alex P.
dflinkmann
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by dflinkmann »

Hello Alex,

I am a silent reader of this forum, but I am very frequently logged in an read mostly every thread just to learn from others projects. I am not even familiar with Fiat-engines as I am a Daihatsu enthusiast.

What I have read from you is gives me the feeling that you have to plan your car rebuild on a tight budget. If so, you have to be very carefully of what you really can spend this car.

First point: Safety - You can not save money on this, so you have to plan this in one of the first steps.

2nd: brakes and suspension. Eventually there are some parts where you could use other car parts which makes it a bit cheaper, but it should be something proofed to work by experienced builders. However sooner or later you have to invest quite a good amount of money in this.

After all of that you can think about what engine and gearbox would make sense with the remaining money to spend.

If you have to pay much money to get a rare autobianchi engine, it doesn't make sense from the financial standpoint, because you always have to expect a complete engine break down. Also a turboed engine like the Fiat UNO Turbo will be far over the top, as you have to invest into so many special and customs parts. Additional to this you will need an experienced engine tuner and dozens of dyno times, as turbo engines multiplies the overall costs.

What I would do is following: Check out what kind of engines you can easily get in your area. If you know that a Fiat UNO Turbo engine will fit, what about a "compatible" but normal aspirating engines, which costs just a fraction of the turbo engine and is eventually widely available ?

I assume you will find other Fiats which could be good donor cars for your project. If so, you can get "some" of a widely available engines and learn with them.

The 600D is a very light car, so when you find an engine running in stock with 60 HP, you have nearly doubled the Horsepower of the original engine.

Just my little opinion on this.

Good luck with the project,

Daniel
Abarthnorway - Remi L
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Abarthnorway - Remi L »

Hi Daniel!


Good luck with Your tuning project!! Better to start with something reliable and easy - time and money goes fast when You try to modify too much.

You are worried about the cost of a Abarth a112 engine - Here is a solution:
The 903 or 982 cc engine from Uno, a112, 127 ++ is basically the same engine as the Abarth engine, and You will find them everywhere for almost nothing, and parts are plentiful and cheap.

Head:
1) Valves are the same size from what I have measured . Some people believe otherwise.....
2) Head design and ports are equal from what I have seen. Some people think otherwise.....
3) Only difference between Abarth and normal is a design difference around the intake valves in the combustion chamber - this is easily fixed by hand with some sandpaper and a drill - I will try to take some pictures - if interested - to show the differences.

Block:
1) The 903 engine have heavier piston rods compared to the very special Abarth version, but can handle quite some revs. The main thing is to change the nuts and bolts for better items, as this is a weak point.
2) The Abarth has a displacement of 1049 cc so a bit bigger, and a bit higher compression

Valvetrain:
- Equal except maybe for the pushrod length

Anyway - for a real budget tuning of this engine You need the following - (sorry Guy Croft...You might disagree on a few details...)

Find a 903 engine with not too many miles. They can run for a very long time without wearing too much!!
Take off the head.
Hammer out the valve guides and smooth the ports
Flow the valves ina a drill and a dremel tool
Find a way to smooth around the valveseat, and open out the valve seats to match the valves
Install drill and dremel butted bronce guides (do not cost too much in the states but need modified shape)
Mill the head approx 1 mm for a raised compression
Get a 32 DMTR (or similar from a small Fiat sohc) and buy a fitting manifold
Get a a112 abarth camshaft used or new - quite cheap
Get double valve springs like in Abarth - preferrably new as I have seen a few broken ones
Rebuild the engine with new rings, bearings and gaskets
Install and try to adjust throttle linkage/carb, and different water outlet in head needs to be dealt with if I remember correctly
Install or build an exhaust

When ready You will have learnt a lot about engines, and the engine itself will sound terrific, and beg You to drive it hard, These small cars are extremely fun to drive - never tried it in a 600 but in a a112.... lots of very pleasant memories, one includes successfully chasing a BMW 730 on a very twisty, bumpy small road. I had a good laugh to say the least!!

A standard 903 with 32 mm DMTR lightly flowed with standard camshaft and compression produces around 62 hp rumour says... that makes for a quick car! But with another cam and compression, I am pretty sure You will get close to a 70 hp ~ ABARTH and pull past 7000rpm (which should be a definitive redline or so they say....he he)

With this power You will easily beat most of the "smaller modern cars" which weigh 1000 kg++, and have a lot more fun while driving it!! It will be reliable if not overrevved too much, and use approx 5 liters of petrol on 100 km. Cheap fun!!

My definitive advice: Please do this first - do the Turbo version later....... if not I am afraid You will never see Your car on the road - seriously!!


Some pics of what can be done easily at home with tools like a small dremel and drill!! I cannot find the pictures of the rods or chambers - might find them later:


Image

Intake valves original/modified in a drill and a dremel some Years ago in a very cold garage.


Image

Intake port before


Image

Intake port later


Image

Exhaust port before


Image

Exhaust port later


Image

Combustion chambers and intake ports before - see the casting marks in the ports


Image

Ports and chamber after light touchup


Image

Deshrouding around intake valve




Good luck and Best regards


Remi Lovhoiden
Last edited by Abarthnorway - Remi L on April 20th, 2009, 11:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Abarthnorway - Remi L
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Abarthnorway - Remi L »

Hi!

.... And yes - the gearbox will handle the power, but get a good clutch:-)

Remi
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dp
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by dp »

Slightly off-topic but the Fiat 600 was made in former Yugoslavia as the 'Zastava 750' until 1985. If you're doing internet searches for parts, that term might bring up something. Also the Seat 600 in Spain is almost the same thing.
Abarthnorway - Remi L
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Abarthnorway - Remi L »

Hi!


As promised some pictures of the differences of a std 903 cc head and the 1050 cc Abarth head:


Image

1050 Abarth head on top vs. 903 head on bottom. Only notable differences:
1)The Abarth has opened up the combustion ch. around inlet valve for deschrouding,
2)The Abarth combustion chamber wall (on the spark plug side) are rounded towards the cc. roof, where the 903 has a more edgy transition towards the cc. roof.


Image

Closeup of Abarth head


Image

Closeup of 903 head


Image

Another of 903


Image

Abarth head in its original form - now also with rust and spiderweb included....:-)


In other words: Head design equal in dimensions except for combustion chamber. Valves - inserts - port dimensions are all the same at least on these two a112 heads - I cannot speak for other models like 127/uno etc, but would be surprised if they differ significantly.



Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden
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Denver
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Denver »

I thank everybody for the reply`s , my dad has tought of mounting 1.7 boxer from Alfa romeo , gearbox again a problem , but in this case , could i use a vw gearbox for the boxer engine ? and anybody know`s some thing about the front suspension ? here are some pictures , long promised .

Alex P.
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Denver
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Denver »

[quote="Abarthnorway - Remi L"]Hi!


As promised some pictures of the differences of a std 903 cc head and the 1050 cc Abarth head:


Thank you very much , your advice is great sir , it is pretty hard with the parts here in Romania , now depending on the money me and my dad will make a choice , stronger stock engine is better because of the lack of parts so we will see .

Good day to you all Alex P.
Abarthnorway - Remi L
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Abarthnorway - Remi L »

Hi Alex!!


Beautiful car!!

I would love to have one of these myself.....

What are the progress on Your engine?

Reason I am asking is that I just visited a friend today. He is racing a 600 in the norwegian historic racing series. He won his class in 2009 (against 1300 minicoopers among others) with a well built modified 1050 engine from an Autobianchi...
these engines are antiques but have a good potential for tuning - cheap parts, and are very easy to work on.

Good luck anyway!!


Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden
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Guy Croft
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Guy Croft »

You've done a fantastic job - well done indeed!


G
Denver
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Re: 1962 Fiat 600D advice to Abarth modifications

Post by Denver »

Thank you Remi , thank you Guy , im glad to see you like it and it means alot to me , here not all the people agree with my ideas for the body , i have decided what engine to use , a 1.6 sohc , i hope that not later than this summer to mount the engine on the little 600 , it needs rebuilding but at least i can take measurements on the body for adapting it .

Alex P.
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